NO conversion at all. Live in CA - warm yrround. MB 300d

Single Tank WVO systems and blending SVO WVO to thin it.

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NO conversion at all. Live in CA - warm yrround. MB 300d

Postby composer_v » Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:36 pm

I'm total newbie. Like 3 days into it.
I'm wondering if I can get away w/ not converting anything or not doing any modifications at all to MB 300D for example. What if I have very clean oil (did the settlement, separation, etc), can I just use it w/ stock system that's on the MB already? Can I mix it w/ regular diesel. I live in California. It's pretty hot here. If I can't get away w/ not modifying at all, what can I do to keep the modifications to minimum?
I would appreciate all tips. Thanks.
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Re: NO conversion at all. Live in CA - warm yrround. MB 300d

Postby SunWizard » Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:07 pm

I have run >60,000 miles in 5 years on V80/D20 unheated blend on my old 300D.
Blending is not as risky on a mercedes since they have a special feature in the pre-chamber that works like a glow plug on all the time.

See:
about12.html?hilit=blend
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Re: NO conversion at all. Live in CA - warm yrround. MB 300d

Postby composer_v » Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:45 pm

Wait, you said V80/D20, does it mean Vegie 80% and Diesel 20%?
Thanks
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Re: NO conversion at all. Live in CA - warm yrround. MB 300d

Postby SunWizard » Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:09 pm

composer_v wrote:Wait, you said V80/D20, does it mean Vegie 80% and Diesel 20%?

Yes.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Re: NO conversion at all. Live in CA - warm yrround. MB 300d

Postby composer_v » Wed Feb 29, 2012 4:19 pm

Wow. That's amazing. The reason why I asked because in the tread you post the link to, you said
"I'm using a mix of up to 20% canola oil, 80% ULSD, plus 0.2% acetone, and 0.2% pure gum turpentine, in a 90 litre, [24 gallon] tank."
So, it was 20/80 but the other way.
I wanted to ask you another question: are the any other car/trucks you know that will handle this type of mix without any modifications like MBs?
Thank you!
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Re: NO conversion at all. Live in CA - warm yrround. MB 300d

Postby composer_v » Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:02 pm

SunWizard, what do you have installed on your MB 300D? Any heated fuel delivery system or anything like that?
Thank you.
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Re: NO conversion at all. Live in CA - warm yrround. MB 300d

Postby SunWizard » Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:14 pm

composer_v wrote:Wow. That's amazing. The reason why I asked because in the tread you post the link to, you said
"I'm using a mix of up to 20% canola oil, 80% ULSD, plus 0.2% acetone, and 0.2% pure gum turpentine, in a 90 litre, [24 gallon] tank."
So, it was 20/80 but the other way.

That's not me, look again. I think acetone is a bad idea, see the thread about it.
I wanted to ask you another question: are the any other car/trucks you know that will handle this type of mix without any modifications like MBs?

Yes the Dodge cummins from 94-98.5 is very similar to the mercedes. Some say Ford powerstrokes too but I don't have experience with them.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
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Re: NO conversion at all. Live in CA - warm yrround. MB 300d

Postby SunWizard » Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:15 pm

composer_v wrote:SunWizard, what do you have installed on your MB 300D? Any heated fuel delivery system or anything like that?

Nothing, its stock.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
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Re: NO conversion at all. Live in CA - warm yrround. MB 300d

Postby composer_v » Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:42 pm

SunWizard wrote:Wow. That's amazing. The reason why I asked because in the tread you post the link to, you said
"I'm using a mix of up to 20% canola oil, 80% ULSD, plus 0.2% acetone, and 0.2% pure gum turpentine, in a 90 litre, [24 gallon] tank."
So, it was 20/80 but the other way.



Ok, I'm sorry. Didn't see that it was someone else.

Would you recommend some treads where I can read about proper mixing? Thanks for all of help I really appreciate it.
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Re: NO conversion at all. Live in CA - warm yrround. MB 300d

Postby John Galt » Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:23 pm

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Re: NO conversion at all. Live in CA - warm yrround. MB 300d

Postby David » Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:58 am

The only reason I would add a fuel heater to an MB is to stop the possible drop out of fats clogging the fuel filter.
Of course if you are careful with the fuel you uese and getting rid of said fats, that isn't a problem.

i don't believe fuel heaters are needed on MB's for fuel delivery reasons as the MB injector pumps are fed engine oil. Get your Benz up to temp and then put your hand on the IP. It's as hot as the rest of the engine. Clearly you cannot have fuel running through that and coming out the other end cold. Then of course there is the fact the injectors are buried in the head and exposed to High combustion temps as well. It would be impossible to put cold fuel in an MB if you tried!
_____________________

I don't give a damn about what might or could happen until a significant group of people can tell me it HAS happened to them.
Until then, it's just more endless gloom and doom Veg folk law.
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Re: NO conversion at all. Live in CA - warm yrround. MB 300d

Postby veginator » Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:11 pm

I have run >60,000 miles in 5 years on V80/D20 unheated blend on my old 300D.
Blending is not as risky on a mercedes since they have a special feature in the pre-chamber that works like a glow plug on all the time.

I wanted to ask you another question: are the any other car/trucks you know that will handle this type of mix without any modifications like MBs?


Yes the Dodge cummins from 94-98.5 is very similar to the mercedes. Some say Ford powerstrokes too but I don't have experience with them.


Sun -
I wish I'd seen this exchange a few years ago...or even back in 2005 (errr...before it was posted...) so as to skip what looks in hindsight like a lot of half-fulfilled plans and purchases. For years I've just made spasmodic forays into assembling what I'd always read HAD to be a 2-tank system for my '97 Cummins, in order not to risk all manner of ills, but was always getting mired in the details of hardware-procurement phase, or trying to engineer & place that second tank, or adapting my plans to the "new" issue of polymerization, etc. Oddly, I stumbled back to this forum when I was researching the pros/cons of simply blending, but for a 300TD that I would like to buy as a daily-driver (but haven't yet) - and it seems like blending might work well for both vehicles.

What are the details of the "...special feature in the pre-chamber that works like a glow plug on all the time...?" Is there a generic name for this configuration? Have you come across engines other than the 2nd-gen Cummins that might be good candidates for blending?

I'm pretty excited about your findings & what appears to be a proven history of actual use. What's the latest on your 300D? (please don't tell me that the Benz had to be torn down and had coked rings and gummed valves...)

I'm just about set up to centrifuge (simple centrifuge) so it suddenly appears that I can safely skip a hell of a lot of modifications to not only the Dodge, but the Benz if I buy it, and could be blending for both vehicles in a few days at most. I'm thinking I'll add a simple spin-on fuel filter head and standardize it on both vehicles, and the Benz would get a fuel-pressure gauge, but that would be about it - yes? Would you go with any particular spin-on setup/cartridge?

You also indicated that you tweaked your blend for your geography, hills/loads, and temps: smoking or hard-starting indicating too heavy on the VO percentage. I'm guessing warmer temps require less diesel?

Mahalo - Dave
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Re: NO conversion at all. Live in CA - warm yrround. MB 300d

Postby SunWizard » Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:59 am

veginator wrote:What are the details of the "...special feature in the pre-chamber that works like a glow plug on all the time...?" Is there a generic name for this configuration?

IDI - indirect injection is part of the name for it, but they don't all have the special pre-chamber.
Have you come across engines other than the 2nd-gen Cummins that might be good candidates for blending?

The Dodge is direct injection and doesn't have that feature so it is not as good for blending. No others I know of have it.
I'm pretty excited about your findings & what appears to be a proven history of actual use. What's the latest on your 300D? (please don't tell me that the Benz had to be torn down and had coked rings and gummed valves...)

Its still working fine.
I'm just about set up to centrifuge (simple centrifuge) so it suddenly appears that I can safely skip a hell of a lot of modifications to not only the Dodge, but the Benz if I buy it, and could be blending for both vehicles in a few days at most. I'm thinking I'll add a simple spin-on fuel filter head and standardize it on both vehicles, and the Benz would get a fuel-pressure gauge, but that would be about it - yes? Would you go with any particular spin-on setup/cartridge?

Whatever you can find easily.
You also indicated that you tweaked your blend for your geography, hills/loads, and temps: smoking or hard-starting indicating too heavy on the VO percentage. I'm guessing warmer temps require less diesel?

Correct.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
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Re: NO conversion at all. Live in CA - warm yrround. MB 300d

Postby beeline » Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:12 am

volkswagen mk 1,2,3 golf and jetta (pre TDI) can be run as well without mods, though probably not the same level of injection system sturdiness as in a Mercedes.
1996 dodge diesel, 2 tank heated WVO conversion
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Re: NO conversion at all. Live in CA - warm yrround. MB 300d

Postby veginator » Sat Sep 27, 2014 1:02 am

It took me a LONG time to get to the point of being ready and willing to transition from petro to WVO in that '83 300SD I bought, finally. Kinda got screwed - definitely not a full-disclosure previous-owner. I found that it had a lot of fuel-system problems when I bought it, and that kept me quite busy just correcting things. I felt it would have been a bit too confusing to be testing blends, etc at the same time as finding and fixing problems. Former owner claimed nothing but petrodiesel had been used, but the polymer-clogged tank screen said otherwise. Took the tank out, pressure-washed it, caustic-washed it, and epoxy-coated it, hoping to hedge against polymerization that might happen later, with WVO or even biodiesel. And oh, yeah, before that, there was the non-working fuel gauge (read pleasantly full, making me think the seller WAS a great guy - until it was empty, on the freeway, and there's apparently so little diesel available to the, er diesel tow-trucks, that one ended up having to tow me to a diesel filling station. I'd taken the brand-new fuel filter as a sign that the guy did good maintenance, but more likely he'd just given up. Had a bad glow-plug relay, then one glow-plug down, broken air-cleaner mount, leaking crankcase-ventilation system...all only the beginning. New injectors went in, too. I don't hate working on cars, but I do hate being deceived, and really shouldn't be spending so much time on the Beast.

Anyway, being conservative about my plan to get to 100% WVO, I also installed injector line heaters, since I want to minimize the chance of coking, or just plain not starting. Those, by the way, do quite well at heating, but they're incomplete: I'm finding they get way up there in temp as long as the vehicle isn't moving much, but moving air (and, it should be said, some losses from the higher WVO flow at higher speed) bring the temp from an awesome 240F (high idle) down to 155F (freeway), at ambient air temp of around 80F. I'm looking for a good choice of insulation for them - Rubatex high temp rating isn't high enough for comfort.

Still, at 100% WVO, even with full temp from the line-heaters, it's not at all anxious to start. Cranking goes on far longer than I'd like before it coughs and starts, seemingly on the verge of taking the battery down, and then it's a very delicate affair keeping it running, until it warms up. If I have to go lighter on the blend, I won't be all that heartbroken not to be able to run 100% WVO, but still - aren't other people doing just that, even without heat, and even in a less-warm (California) climate?

Has me wondering about setting up a purge tank...or just stopping at 75%WVO. Other ideas on diagnosis/fixes?

--Dave
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