Injection Pumps & Veg: Friends or Foes?

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Injection Pumps & Veg: Friends or Foes?

Postby DirtyBarrel » Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:53 pm

Personal Experience:
Ive worked with two different 2 tank buses with on board collection and centrifuging/de-watering. The old full size 1989, with all mechanical components, keeps suckin' and goin'. On my 2001 GMC 6.5 3500 short bus my Injection pump and a few injectors have to be replaced every 10,000 miles (not convenient for a touring band). We have replaced the $900 pump twice. It is worth it if you have tons of time even considering the high cost of the repair to run on veg but if you dont have time to get stuck somewhere, for up to a week, it is not worth it.

Now im doing my homework to convert a 1995 F250 7.3l Powerstroke (Direct Injection) and cant find much on the lift pump which seems to also be the injection pump. It is a mechanical pump the part number is F6TZ-9350-A. ive used raptor pumps instead of the stock lift pumps to get the veg to the injection pump but is it necessary for the 95'?. Ive been pointed in direction (from my veg guru) to 2003 powerstrokes because they have no returns and the stock tank switch can be used. This would reduce purging time 8) and simplify the system :wink: . Ive had my 95 for a bit and would like to keep it for conversion if it will be worth it!

What is killing the Injection pump on my 2001? Could it fail because of a sensor inside or is it corrosion?

Is there an effect the sodium in veg has on certain metals?

What are the differences between injection pumps that can work to their full life on veg and ones that repeatedly die young?


veg on, road warriors!
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Re: Injection Pumps & Veg: Friends or Foes?

Postby John Galt » Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:51 am

What are the differences between injection pumps that can work to their full life on veg and ones that repeatedly die young?
Inline mechanical vs rotary
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Re: Injection Pumps & Veg: Friends or Foes?

Postby SunWizard » Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:39 am

DirtyBarrel wrote:Personal Experience:
Ive worked with two different 2 tank buses with on board collection and centrifuging/de-watering. The old full size 1989, with all mechanical components, keeps suckin' and goin'. On my 2001 GMC 6.5 3500 short bus my Injection pump and a few injectors have to be replaced every 10,000 miles (not convenient for a touring band). We have replaced the $900 pump twice. It is worth it if you have tons of time even considering the high cost of the repair to run on veg but if you dont have time to get stuck somewhere, for up to a week, it is not worth it.

Sorry you are having expensive failures.
Now im doing my homework to convert a 1995 F250 7.3l Powerstroke (Direct Injection) and cant find much on the lift pump which seems to also be the injection pump.

No its still a lift pump and yes you need one. The injection is done with engine oil pressurized to thousands of PSI inside the expensive electronic injectors.
It is a mechanical pump the part number is F6TZ-9350-A. ive used raptor pumps instead of the stock lift pumps to get the veg to the injection pump but is it necessary for the 95'?. Ive been pointed in direction (from my veg guru) to 2003 powerstrokes because they have no returns and the stock tank switch can be used. This would reduce purging time 8) and simplify the system :wink: .

No return makes purging times far longer, since the engine has to burn all the WVO in the lines instead of pushing it quickly back the return to the tank.
What is killing the Injection pump on my 2001? Could it fail because of a sensor inside or is it corrosion?

Flawed design, that year fails often even running diesel. They had a recall on them because so many were failing with expensive repairs. Suspended water in your WVO is the other main thing that can cause quick failures. What are you doing to test for water?

Is there an effect the sodium in veg has on certain metals?

No, but high FFA can have a bad effect.

What are the differences between injection pumps that can work to their full life on veg and ones that repeatedly die young?

Inline is best, then rotary, then worst is electronic. Then there are the flawed design electronic which are worst, and you got the worst year of that type. Powerstrokes are a different type and are not bad except the 6.0, but harder to convert, and more expensive if you ruin the injectors (suspended water) or when they wear out eventually.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Re: Injection Pumps & Veg: Friends or Foes?

Postby DirtyBarrel » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:16 pm

So, is the pump on the 7.3l powerstroke inline or rotary? and will i need to add an additional lift pump to help it with the lift of veg?

As for Water Testing, I have boiled veg to test for water but i do not do this often. When burnin' veg' i am normally on tour and just suck n go... so my standard is as follows:
-When possible, get info from the kitchen.
-Make sure the lid is secure and there are no signs that noticeable amounts of water have contaminated the batch.
-watch veg color through the clear window of collection hose.
-centrifuge 3-5 times while venting water(this is done in a 100 gal 'L' shaped truck tank with a centrifuge welded on top).
-heated DAVCO filter.
-drain dirty tank if any signs of water or other contams beyond normal show up while centrifuging or transferring through DAVCO
-change filters often
After clean tank there is an independent heated oil filter (bypasses D2 Filter) before FPHE and injection.
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Re: Injection Pumps & Veg: Friends or Foes?

Postby SunWizard » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:44 pm

DirtyBarrel wrote:So, is the pump on the 7.3l powerstroke inline or rotary?

Neither, its different and uses engine oil in the injectors as described above.
and will i need to add an additional lift pump to help it with the lift of veg?

Yes.
As for Water Testing, I have boiled veg to test for water but i do not do this often.

That is not a valid water test, see water testing methods in the collecting and filtering section here. Since you are not testing, its very likely that you reduced the life of your pump and injectors from water. I test every batch, and some multiple times if they had water in the first test. Most of the time you can't see suspended water with your eyes unless there is large amounts of water and the WVO turns cloudy. The filter does nothing to remove suspended water, so changing it often doesn't help either. I only change when it starts to clog as indicated by a drop in pressure on my WVO pressure guage under hard acceleration.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Re: Injection Pumps & Veg: Friends or Foes?

Postby DirtyBarrel » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:15 pm

My DAVCO filter is just used when transferring from dirty to clean after centrifuging so does not effect my fuel psi. My pressure drops when the pre injection heated oil filter is cashed. Does the DAVCO (water-separating filter) actually separate any water?

I change the DAVCO when transferring slows or the ridges pull together.
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Re: Injection Pumps & Veg: Friends or Foes?

Postby SunWizard » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:42 pm

DirtyBarrel wrote:My DAVCO filter is just used when transferring from dirty to clean after centrifuging so does not effect my fuel psi. My pressure drops when the pre injection heated oil filter is cashed. Does the DAVCO (water-separating filter) actually separate any water?

A little but not enough to prevent damage.
I change the DAVCO when transferring slows or the ridges pull together.

It should last for years and thousands of gallons if your centrifuging enough.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
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Location: N. Colorado

Re: Injection Pumps & Veg: Friends or Foes?

Postby DirtyBarrel » Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:34 pm

DirtyBarrel wrote:It should last for years and thousands of gallons if your centrifuging enough.


It generally lasts about 500 gallons or more but i have changed it around 300 as well. I have had concerns that while centrifuging 100 gallons the entire tank does cycle through the CF resulting in some veg getting centrifuged more times and some less. CF is top left of tank (falls into tank after centrifuging) and pick up is bottom right.
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