People who damaged their engines and how?

For discussing the modifications needed for diesel vehicles to run with 2 tank veggie oil conversions.

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Postby SkySkiJason » Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:39 am

David, I appreciate your insight. I agree that VO itself did not cause these problems. It is obvious from the carnage that EACH of these vehicles were doing something wrong.

My friend who saw the TDI said the crankcase was a gelatenous mess. He said it was obvious VO had made its way in there. The blaring fact in that story is the owner wasn't too brite. It was easy for him to blame VO, because he knew he was cutting corners.

I also feel stories like these ARE important to keep in circulation. I see more and more posts on the various forums where people believe they can 1/2 ass a 'conversion' because its sooo easy to make a diesel run on VO. We have learned there are a few things ya gotta do to make a vehicle survive on a high cholesterol diet. Each of these examples does have a 'no-no' in educated VO circles.

Richard, I don't think blending w/bio is a problem. I have not seen separation in the VO/bio blends I experimented with... :wink:
2001 F-350, DRW, 4x4, XLT Crew Cab, flat bed, 7.3, 6 spd, Dipricol Optix gauges, DP tunes - Single-Shot injectors! Vegistroke-style WVO conversion, 55,000 VO miles so far - 190 deg VO before the heads
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Postby SunWizard » Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:30 am

I have never seen any separation in any of my test jars of V80/D20 and V50/D50 during 6 months at temperatures from 0-70F. PHO will separate and thats why its not recommended for blending. John Galt said he did similar tests and got the same results.
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Postby John Galt » Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:28 am

I have sample jars of canola and ULSD: V50-D50, V25-D75, V12-D88, and V6-D94 that are two years old, and have been to -40 temperatures, and no separation has ever occurred. I have other sample jars of recycled VO and ULSD 50-50, that contained some PHO and fats, and the PHO and fats separate out starting at about 45°F, while the remaining portion stays clear to 0°F before clouding.
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Postby SkySkiJason » Sat Mar 22, 2008 5:00 pm

John Galt wrote: I have other sample jars of recycled VO and ULSD 50-50, that contained some PHO and fats, and the PHO and fats separate out starting at about 45°F, while the remaining portion stays clear to 0°F before clouding.


This is what ALL of my samples were. I don't burn any new VO. I still saw seperation at temps up to 60*F, even samples that stayed in the truck!

Is it bad then that I discourage folks from blending? Should I validate that by saying maybe ya shouldn't blend w/ PHO or VO that contains fats?
2001 F-350, DRW, 4x4, XLT Crew Cab, flat bed, 7.3, 6 spd, Dipricol Optix gauges, DP tunes - Single-Shot injectors! Vegistroke-style WVO conversion, 55,000 VO miles so far - 190 deg VO before the heads
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Postby Welder » Sat Mar 22, 2008 8:59 pm

Hi Jason.

I hate to butt in here, but I think the reason that Johns' blends don't appear to seperate is that in his upflow settling/dewatering system, any fats and hydroveg slowly falls to the bottom of the upflow tower while the thinner stuff rises up and gets drawn into the second tower for filtration. Basically, this means that there aren't any high melt point fats to seperate out from his blends because they were already seperated during the upflow settling.

It's this relatively slow vertical movement of WVO that allows the slightly heavier stuff to fall out. In a higher speed process like a CF system, or a heat'n'spray system, the fats would be so thinned they mostly don't have time to seperate before the overall flow of the process draws them into the pump intake where they are fully re-blended back into the lighter veggie again. Any settling that happened behind the restaurant or in a greasers garage is undone by the more aggressive faster WVO refinement processes.

I'm not sure if I understand the seperation you are referring to. Are you seeing high melp point fats seperate out of a blend, or are you seeing non hydro veggie seperating out from the blend?
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Postby SunWizard » Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:59 pm

SkySkiJason wrote:Is it bad then that I discourage folks from blending? Should I validate that by saying maybe ya shouldn't blend w/ PHO or VO that contains fats?

Correct. Try some blend samples that don't contain PHO or fats and they won't separate.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
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Postby SkySkiJason » Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:04 pm

Welder wrote:I'm not sure if I understand the seperation you are referring to. Are you seeing high melp point fats seperate out of a blend, or are you seeing non hydro veggie seperating out from the blend?


Until today, I never considered the difference between the fats/PHO/and non-PH VO - in those samples. I was just shocked when stuff fell out! :shock: I thought VO would stay in solution in diesel. From what I was looking at - it did not! I thought, "If that happened in my diesel tank... not good..."

I do seperate the fats/PHO in the summer when I can 'cold' filter. In fact the friend I make bio with took some JUNK oil from my house recently to make bio. I was aggravated he was wasting his time, this was the bottomss of the bottoms. This came out of the bottom of the dewatering still, was allowed to settle, take the 'good stuff' off the top and put it thru again - you get the idea. Anyway, he was so proud the BioPro 190 made beautiful fuel out of it - after seperating 20% or so water from it. So this stuff was MOSTLY PHO and animal fats...

So, is it just these 'heavier' elements that refuse to stay in solution in diesel?
2001 F-350, DRW, 4x4, XLT Crew Cab, flat bed, 7.3, 6 spd, Dipricol Optix gauges, DP tunes - Single-Shot injectors! Vegistroke-style WVO conversion, 55,000 VO miles so far - 190 deg VO before the heads
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Postby SunWizard » Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:18 pm

SkySkiJason wrote:So, is it just these 'heavier' elements that refuse to stay in solution in diesel?

Correct. Thats what John and I keep repeating due to our testing over long periods.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
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Postby Welder » Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:47 am

Agent Fox Mulder just called me and informed me that he has eye wittness acccounts that little green martians hired by the NBB actually broke into the Starship Enterprise and used the matter transferrance beam to materialise a few used ball bearings into the TDI/SVO victims turbo intake.

I know that since nobody will believe me we can all just blame WVO for the victims dead engine... And global warming... And PMS... And Bushs' crooked smirk...And Don Kings' hair... And (insert your favourite gripe here)...
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Postby SunWizard » Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:17 am

David wrote:If anything, I think these posts show how WVO is a workable and non damaging fuel than it is to blame for any negative effects.

I agree, and one of the values of seeing these posts put together like this is you see the pattern of immediately blaming VO for problems that are usually due to some other factor.
Geez, all these tales of woe and I still can’t find any half creditable examples of Coking in vehicles in every day use despite all the fear mongering warnings about it.

I think the TDI example I gave above was creditable coking and you made no comments about it:
SunWizard wrote:Another one: VO coked up my intake ports and valves:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=205591
This was on a VW TDI and the problem occurs frequently even on D2 but appears worse on veg.

This is not ring coking, but a good warning to all TDI drivers. And I don't see anything wrong he was doing.
Last edited by SunWizard on Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
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Postby coachgeo » Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:31 pm

SunWizard wrote:
SkySkiJason wrote:Is it bad then that I discourage folks from blending? Should I validate that by saying maybe ya shouldn't blend w/ PHO or VO that contains fats?

Correct. Try some blend samples that don't contain PHO or fats and they won't separate.
quick question, which; if any, of the filter/settling methods removes PHO from non PHO?

Cold Filtering?

Feel free to point me to another thread that discusses this.
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Postby SunWizard » Sun Mar 23, 2008 1:10 pm

Any form of cold settling is best, such as John Galt's upflow settling method, or simple batch settling. And you do it at as low (or even lower) a temp as you plan to run the VO at. If you want to run it below 32F or the point where your VO becomes gel, then settle slightly above the gel temp.

Cold filtering would do it, but would clog up too many filters since there is often a lot of PHO and fats. Sometimes its the entire barrel :shock:

A test jar in your fridge is a good way to test a sample of your VO for separation at around 40F. Except when your wife gets mad after finding out some of the samples may contain diesel :evil:
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
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Postby SkySkiJason » Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:52 am

2001 F-350, DRW, 4x4, XLT Crew Cab, flat bed, 7.3, 6 spd, Dipricol Optix gauges, DP tunes - Single-Shot injectors! Vegistroke-style WVO conversion, 55,000 VO miles so far - 190 deg VO before the heads
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Postby hheynow » Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:00 pm

Yeah I remember that one too. :mrgreen: I spoke to Travis on the phone this morning and he believes his problem is due to several factors. He runs aftermarket injectors (Stage 1's) and always runs vegoil on a very hot chip setting. First mistake IMO. Oil got past his rings. Second, his system shares the stock fuel bowl preventing complete purges. When he tore it open he noticed the two sets of o-rings on each injector were damaged and was squirting oil in places oil should never go. He said that the aftermarket injectors SHOULD HAVE come with upgraded o-rings but didn't. I suggested for him to go back to stock injectors and he laughed at me. I also suggested he not run on his hot chip. I heard a faint chuckle in the background.

So here's my question about coked injectors. How does one know that theirs are fouling or fouled? Poor acceleration/lack of power? Will a buzz and contribution test indicate fouling/coking? I can't believe the only way to tell is to visually inspect them.
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Postby SunWizard » Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:42 pm

An increased amount of smoke at startup or any other time indicates injector fouling. I don't know what a buzz and contribution test is?
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
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