People who damaged their engines and how?

For discussing the modifications needed for diesel vehicles to run with 2 tank veggie oil conversions.

Moderators: SunWizard, coachgeo

An example of a TDI that's doing great, is that ok here?

Postby plantdriver1 » Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:02 am

I hope nobody minds me posting about a TDI that is doing great. In fact, it is the highest mileage diesel of any sort on WVO I know of.

About 5 years ago I sold a kit to Joe Besslich in Ontario. He's recently retired, but drove for the transit commission in Toronto, and commuted in from Belleville, a considerable distance.

I phoned him last week to check in. Here is what he told me:

THE CAR:

- the car is a 99 Jetta TDI, converted about 5 years ago.

THE KIT: PlantDrive kit, with Hotstk (same as Hotfox, but aluminum, we used to supply it, now we supply the stainless steel Hotfox), Vormax filter, Vegtherm inline electric fuel heater, and 6-port motor drive Pollak valve.

THE OIL:
- he runs mostly used Canola oil, some used sunflower oil, a little used corn oil.

PROCESSING OF THE OIL:

He merely settles the oil a few weeks, and pumps it from the drum, partway down, through a 70 micron Wand, and into the tank.
The onboard filter is a Vormax. He gets about 20,000 km (~12,000 miles) per filter element.

MILES ON ENGINE; MILES ON WVO:

- the car now has 675,000 km on it That is about 418,000 MILES.
- About 450,000 km has been on the used cooking oil. That is 280,000 MILES.

LUBRICATING OIL:
Synthetic, changes it every 10,000 km (6200 miles). No sampling or testing is done.

TIMING BELT: Changes it every 100,000 km (62,000 miles)

INTAKE AND EXHAUST MANIFOLDS: Checked each time timing belt is changed. Both have been clean every time, no need to clean.

OPERATION: Started COLD. No block heater, no TDI heater. Coldest winter temperatures -30C (-22F) (typically somewhat warmer than that, but certainly Belleville gets it's share of cold winter temperatures) Car starts easily on diesel, always. No problems from "cross-contamination" or settling.

PROBLEMS/REPAIRS TO DATE:

PlantDrive Kit:

Pollak valve replacements needed: I believe the car is on it's 4th valve. Replacement frequency was way too high for a little while last year; owner now waits longer to switch than he used to, in coldest temperatures, to allow return fuel passing through valve to warm it. This has made a distinct improvement, no more problems. What this means, though, is that for the majority of the time and mileage logged, the car has been switched over before being fully up to operating temperature. Yet there are no apparent problems from that. (Incidentally, we replaced the valves at no charge, and the owner declined the opportunity to change to Hydraforce 3-ports - it was easier to just change the Pollak). There are no other reported issues with the kit. As far as I can recall, it is the original Vegtherm.

INJECTION PUMP: Pump started to leak, and was somewhat work out, so it was replaced. I did not get the mileage/date on this, but I think it was done fairly recently. The owner reports significantly improved power having a new pump, which is not unusual when you replace a worn out injection pump.

The car is reported to run perfectly.

I do not monitor the forums a lot, so if you have any questions, email me, but I think the extraordinary performance of this one is due to it having lots of highway use (as is the case with any diesel, they like to be run fully warmed up and working, for long periods), and using mostly Canola oil, and not going too long between oil changes, and having a kit with good, fast heating and a good filter.
Edward Beggs
PlantDrive(tm) International
Pure Plant Oil Components, Kits, Conversions, Consulting, Oil Presses, since 1999.
British Columbia, Canada
www.plantdrive.ca
plantdriver1
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:22 am
Location: Salmon Arm, British Columbia, Canada

Postby Radrick » Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:20 pm

coachgeo wrote:
Radrick wrote:...FYI My Dad owns a VW TDI and is an experienced diesel owner. He has had it for three years and has had to have the intake manifold removed and cleaned three times and had the intake ports and valves done once. It is an newer (not sure of the year) car...
Interesting. Could you please check on the year. I have an 03 myself.

Had he mentioned to you a symptom that prompted him to know it was time to clean out the manifolds etc.


Well I finally got a chance to talk to the old man about his vw. In fact i am driving it since my IP failed in my chevy this weekend. Anyway his vw is a 2003 and he bought it with 30k on it. I was a little off on the intake cleaning deal, the previous owner had it done and Dad had it done at 40k. When he talked the dealer mechanic about it the mechanic told him "it wasn't uncommon". Dad took this to mean that it was common problem on these cars. In fact when I told him that you guys made mention of a EGR block off kit he asked me to find out about that ASAP. So who has info on this or can point me to a web site. Thanks
1995 Chevy K1500 6.5 TD not on WVO yet but soon.
Radrick
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Rochester, MN

Postby SunWizard » Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:33 pm

Do a search here on EGR delete or EGR plate:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=157670
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1719
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:53 pm
Location: N. Colorado

Postby Jake Palmer » Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:15 am

People who damaged their engines and how?

I would like to report the Untimely Death of a VW diesel engine that has been running WVO.

VW 1.6TD, spent its first 12 years in my mother's 92 Jetta. Timing belt was changed at least once in this first 260k kms. Oil was diligently added, within days, any time the oil light came on.

I bought the engine, let it sit for 2 years, then changed the oil and timing belt and put it in my Samurai. Having sat for so long, I was careful with my initial startup. I kept it at 3500k rpms for the first 2 minutes, to ensure proper oil flow. Smoked a bit

Since then, it has been whipped like a red-headed stepchild, and driven like it was stolen.

When I am feeling gentle, I shift at 4k rpms. When I am felling mean, I shift when my ears hurt.

Anyway, it's not working so great now. I think WVO must have killed it.
Jake Palmer
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:12 pm
Location: New Brunswick

Postby djenkins6 » Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:00 am

Jake Palmer wrote: People who damaged their engines and how? When I am feeling gentle, I shift at 4k rpms. When I am felling mean, I shift when my ears hurt.


I doubt WVO is the reason - aren't these supposed to run at a nice gentle 2500-3000rpm... :)

David
djenkins6
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:52 pm
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada

Postby SkySkiJason » Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:12 pm

Jake Palmer wrote:[u][b]
Anyway, it's not working so great now. I think WVO must have killed it.


hehehehe, thats funny! :lol:

I think the Japs and the germans USED to get along better. Maybe the VW is just holding a grudge against the Suzuki and yer just caught in middle.
2001 F-350, DRW, 4x4, XLT Crew Cab, flat bed, 7.3, 6 spd, Dipricol Optix gauges, DP tunes - Single-Shot injectors! Vegistroke-style WVO conversion, 55,000 VO miles so far - 190 deg VO before the heads
SkySkiJason
 
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:06 pm

Postby chasee » Wed May 07, 2008 8:12 pm

95K miles on WVO.

Here's my post to another forum from back at 90K:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=208276

I should hit 100K in the next few weeks.
2005 Golf GLS PD-TDI, 5-speed. Grease Car kit installed right off the lot when brand new. Running on WVO about 85% of the time.
chasee
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 8:07 pm

Postby Welder » Thu May 08, 2008 3:57 am

chasee wrote:95K miles on WVO.

Here's my post to another forum from back at 90K:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=208276

I should hit 100K in the next few weeks.


That's great Chasee! Congrats!
"Is there anybody out there?"

Roger Waters
Welder
 
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:06 am
Location: B.C. Canada

Postby chasee » Thu May 08, 2008 5:33 am

SunWizard wrote:Another TDI, bought brand new 2005 Passat, Plantdrive installed kit, cared for carefully it appears, 2-4k mile synthetic oil changes, still had a huge list of problems, documented in a very detailed blog at:
http://getoffoil.blogspot.com/

Problems started at 17k miles, and a long list of expensive repairs. Carbon build up at 20k reported by mechanic to equal most TDI engines at 150k. Engine destroyed at 30k, new engine bought. OUCH. But he is still running VO.

Could chunks of this thick carbon have broken off and be what destroys the turbos in these due to the EGR? Besides banging around in there and damaging the cylinder walls and valves, etc.

I take all of this as advice to be very careful with a TDI, both on D2 and VO.


I'm finally fed up with that guy Kevin. His blog has been used by WVO naysayers forever now. What it actually is good for is to illustrate exactly what NOT to do when running WVO. Its almost as if he set out to make each and every mistake possible, starting with a horrible kit and unprepared WVO. That aside, it just astounds me how he blithely ignores VW oil specs, on a freakin' PD, right up to today. He's like one of those kids who tries to get the lowest score possible on the SAT... it actually takes effort. :?
2005 Golf GLS PD-TDI, 5-speed. Grease Car kit installed right off the lot when brand new. Running on WVO about 85% of the time.
chasee
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 8:07 pm

comment on "a cautionary tale"

Postby HoldOnTight » Wed May 14, 2008 9:04 pm

I agree with you. One individual is using that as an excuse to say on a sticky of all places, "you can't run a chip because it injects more fuel." Heck, that's exactly what happens everytime I move the vehicle off of idle! Using that logic, once couldn't load an engine (tow a trailer or accelerate) without having unburnt VO. What bunk! The only thing he is doing is scaring people out of converting to SVO. I would applaud that but, it is not so good for the environment, and it might make more WVO available to me! ;)

Bottom line is this: If the fuel is hot enough and the injector is in good shape, enough pressure, the vo will atomize well enough to burn completely.
Late 99 Ford F-250, Designed and installed at home, 30 kMi on VO. WVO temp at solenoid valve is 185-195+F, winter-summer.
HoldOnTight
 
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:40 pm
Location: Dayton OH

Re: comment on "a cautionary tale"

Postby SunWizard » Wed May 14, 2008 9:40 pm

HoldOnTight wrote:Bottom line is this: If the fuel is hot enough and the injector is in good shape, enough pressure, the vo will atomize well enough to burn completely.

Add to that, you need enough air for any increased fueling so the air/fuel ratio isn't so bad to create a bunch of smoke, which is the sign of unburned fuel that can cause deposits or get past the rings.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1719
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:53 pm
Location: N. Colorado

Postby SunWizard » Sun May 18, 2008 10:50 pm

Here's another Chevy 6.5 who snapped the IP shaft:
http://www.greasecar.com/forum_topicview.cfm?frmtopicID=17808
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1719
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:53 pm
Location: N. Colorado

Postby VegMeister » Mon May 19, 2008 10:12 pm

I haven't posted in a long long time because i've been kinda depressed. My truck is parked until I can pull the IP off and see what went wrong.

I'm getting large amounts of fuel in my oil. In fact it took me 2 oil changes (I always have a 2ton jack, oil pan, and lots of good oil on me in case of emergency) just to get the beast home. And if I wasn't running cenpeco oil I'm convinced I'd have major engine problems now. Based upon my understanding of the old 6.5 engine, the only place that this could happen is the IP.

Was this caused by veg oil? I don't know.
centralvalleybiodiesel CF
1993 GMC Sierra K2500 6.5L + homebuilt veg kit, OEM glowplug failure (update: rebuilt with a 6.2 block, working fine)
1988 Ford 6.9L OEM dual tank, 90+% veg oil blend.
1989 Ford 7.3L, 80+% veg oil blend.
VegMeister
 
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:12 am
Location: Pembine, WI

Postby SunWizard » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:54 pm

Here is another TDI with greascar, 37k on VO, looks like ring coking at this point causing cylinder scoring:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=222957
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1719
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:53 pm
Location: N. Colorado

Postby rkpatt » Tue Sep 02, 2008 6:49 am

No engine damage per se that I am aware of but I experienced the Stanadyne DB 2 IP head seizure / snapped shaft on my 1994 Ford F250 IDI w/ 2 tank heated system ( one of several threads here- http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/ ... 030821/p/1 ) . My driving patterns for this vehicle have changed to mainly short trips (often never reaches full operating temp ) and long periods of being parked ( potential for moisture and poly in the tank ) . For now , I am only using I am using unheated 70% diesel %30 WVO , 5-10% RUG blend.
rkpatt
 
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:32 pm
Location: GA

PreviousNext

Return to 2 Tank veggie oil conversion and General discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron