People who damaged their engines and how?

For discussing the modifications needed for diesel vehicles to run with 2 tank veggie oil conversions.

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Postby SunWizard » Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:24 pm

Here is another TDI with massive damage:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=221689
Note he was running a single tank blend V80/D15/RUG5 in a warm climate TX only for a short time. An interesting thread for how the TDI experts have diagnosed the issues, and lots of pics of the inside of the engine carnage. Note the good info starts on page 10 of the thread.

Looks to me like more ring coking from blending in a TDI. I think I see a pattern developing in this thread.
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Postby coachgeo » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:39 am

Will see. Now they are finding some gunk in the oil pump that may have reduced oil flow to squirters etc.

Gunk at this point appears to be excess silicone from say an over use in installing the oil pan?
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Postby John Galt » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:44 am

I think I see a pattern developing in this thread.


What pattern is that?
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Postby SunWizard » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:18 pm

John Galt wrote:What pattern is that?

A lot of TDIs with coking problems, that quickly lead to massive damage.
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Postby SunWizard » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:21 pm

coachgeo wrote:Will see. Now they are finding some gunk in the oil pump that may have reduced oil flow to squirters etc.

I doubt that is the cause since he said he still had good oil pressure.
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Postby John Galt » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:57 pm

SunWizard wrote:A lot of TDIs with coking problems, that quickly lead to massive damage.


A lot of Volkswagen TDIs with coking problems isn't unusual. It's the most common small, highly sophisticated, diesel engine in N.America. Given the wide variability in: "WVO" quality, fuel moisture content, blend percents, additives used, and range of climate, problems are likely to occur. Then there's the 'idiot factor'

High percent VO blends, with more than 500ppm H20, in cold start-up conditions, used for short trips, will cause problems in modern sophisticated diesel engines which are optimized to run very clean on ULSD fuel.

I know of one specific instance where a new diesel truck engine burning 100% pure petro diesel was coked-up in less than 50k mi because it was primarily used for a 5 mile downhill drive to work then parked for the day before driven back up the hill to home.

A pipe wrench is a poor hammer. Incorrect use of the wrong tool for the job is quite common. Especially when people often buy a vehicle for the image it projects, rather than for it's intended use.
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Postby BMW Fan » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:08 pm

IMHO this thread is fantastic. But, where is the pattern, VW TDI related, I don't see any.

A CAMARO enthusiast driving his first DIESEL.

198xxx miles , unknown owners, unknown service history

The guy does not even know what he's using nor does he know what he is doing.
He was using a few loads of ……
===================================
no im not running a two tank setup. the wvo i was running is not straight wvo. its biodiesel i guess. a friend of mine blends it. uses 30 gallons of wvo 5 gallons diesel 2.5 gallons gas and a few other small amounts of chemicals im not sure of.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

but he did not run his blend it for a longer period of time.( on and off for 3 month )

To call it WVO related … I don’t know. I wouldn’t.

-Then , he’s using the wrong engine oil
-A very fouled and dirty K & N filter from the previous owner, and fears of a clogged intake (you say it won't rev up very fast.)
- i replaced the fuel filter... seems to be running good. lost the little wire clip that holds the T fitting on top the filter on.
- engine burns oil
- he never checked his injectors spray pattern….and so on …and on

Injector was streaming instead of atomizing

What's the value in this kind of info?
I guess every beginner should go through all pages and learn and understand what not to do !

I have checked with friends in Germany and called a Road SideAssistance Club ( ADAC ) for any outstanding figures. There are none for the VW TDI's from 2002 to 2007.

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Postby David » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:41 pm

Not long ago I would have gone on the defensive about Veg oil causing damage to engines like this. Now i don't care in the slightest what people think.

If people want to rush in to using veg without educating themselves properly or preparing their oil correctly, that's their bad luck. These people will always look for an excuse to shift the responsibility from where it rightfully belongs, right at their own feet.

The people who do know what they are doing will know what the real problem was and continue using veg very successfully.

Same as with the zealots whom want to go on with over the top saftey warnings and gloom and doom about the dangerous chemicals that are required in Biodiesel making. They are completely correct. I'll support them all the way in letting people what a life threatening practice bio making is,and help them spread the word and put as many people off the idea as possible.
It's a terribly dangerous practice and people should be deterred from doing it without knowing each and every possible risk involved... for their own safety you understand!!!

Do I care if the idiots give veg a bad name? Not On your life, I'm happy for them to do so. Blow yourself up, burn your house down, ruin your engine and then tell everyone you can about it. It's all good to me.

The more people they put off veg, the longer it will be available for me to use. I'm happy to put in the effort it takes to use veg properly and if others want to take short cuts that leads to the early demise of their engines, then as far as I can see they are only doing me a favor by making more veg available to myself and other serious users.

:D
_____________________

I don't give a damn about what might or could happen until a significant group of people can tell me it HAS happened to them.
Until then, it's just more endless gloom and doom Veg folk law.
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Postby SunWizard » Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:48 pm

BMW Fan wrote:IMHO this thread is fantastic. But, where is the pattern, VW TDI related, I don't see any.

I looked back through this thread. There were 7 TDI with massive engine damage, compared to 8 other makes which mostly had IP damage (such as the older IDI fords and GM with snapped IP shafts - another pattern that has already become well known.) I think part of the pattern is the EGR method that TDIs use (which causes extra coking even on D2), as I mention earlier in this thread.

Thats ~half of the reports, a much higher number than I would expect since I don't think half the VO users have TDIs.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
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81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
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Postby BMW Fan » Thu Sep 11, 2008 8:04 pm

[quote=
Thats ~half of the reports, a much higher number than I would expect since I don't think half the VO users have TDIs.[/quote]

In Nova Scotia ( and Maritimes ) I'd say 75% of existing conversions are VW Jetta conversions. Reports of engine problems are rare. You may ask Jake Palmer.
A Camaro driver not used to drive a Diesel will kill the engine anyway.
198xxx miles under unknown service conditions speak for themselves.
I do not call 15 reports of engine failures a statistic of any value.
Certainly not if people throw unknown stuff in their tank,
don't know about the condition of their injectors or other engine related factors.
Defective injectors are more dangerous then most people believe.
See muzak’s Mitsubishi D50 engine problems on infopop

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Postby Burbarian » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:41 am

Throwing unknown stuff in their tank covers all the vehicles in this thread, not just the TDIs. Of the 15, only the TDIs suffered massive engine damage, while the others had primarily IP damage. And while I agree that 15 out of an unknown population of vehicles world wide running on WVO is indeed statistically insignificant, one can still derive a self evident pattern from the 15 that are on this thread. Speaking from a local perspective, I personally know of several people who run on WVO. 2 are using Ford 7.3L, 1 Chevy Silverado, 3 Mercs, 1 Perkins, 1 MAC, 3 Freightliners. Not counting assorted construction equipment of course. None of them run TDIs. Though admittedly I may have had some part in that, as I don't recommend them due to the reported failures. Steered a neighbor of a friend from a VW just yesterday and recommended a Merc instead.
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Postby powerstroke73L » Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:36 am

I'm willing to bet that lots of the folks who have experienced these failures are simply "hot-dogging" it. Over at www.thedieselstop.com there have been a rash of problems due to guys running massive amounts of waste motor oil. I don't even bother anymore... I wonder how many diesels are going to end up in the scrap heap because of these people?
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Postby Burbarian » Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:48 am

Agreed. The biggest causes of diesel engine damage for people filling them with alternative fuels, are carelessness and willful ignorance.
Speaking of waste motor oil: Apparently, the EPA recognizes burning them in a diesel engine as a valid and safe method of hazardous waste disposal. I recall the old Caterpillar D7Es with the 4 cylinder 5.25" bore engines happily running off drums of that crap deep in logging country. It was better for the local environment to burn it than to risk spilling it carting drums of waste oil back down the mountain.
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Postby SunWizard » Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:54 pm

Another VW TDI on VO with major issues. At least he fixed the problem before massive engine damage:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=234869
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
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Postby SunWizard » Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:54 am

99 Suburban with 15k on 2 tank VO:
On Fourth Injector Pump
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
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