wvo powered pre-heater system

For discussing the modifications needed for diesel vehicles to run with 2 tank veggie oil conversions.

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Postby David » Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:14 am

While Not WVO powered, I saw some LPG powered hot water heaters on ebay that are for Caravans and the like which I thought would be very good for this application.

They are compact, have saftey features built in, would be easy to rig up for our purpose and do the job perfectly. Pump the oil through the heater and that is about it. I think they even have temp controls on the things.
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Postby Welder » Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:02 am

David wrote:While Not WVO powered, I saw some LPG powered hot water heaters on ebay that are for Caravans and the like which I thought would be very good for this application.

They are compact, have saftey features built in, would be easy to rig up for our purpose and do the job perfectly. Pump the oil through the heater and that is about it. I think they even have temp controls on the things.



How much $$$ were they, Dave? Do you remember?
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Postby David » Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:37 am

They weren't cheap and seem to vary in price with output. They are however a pre made, safe and reliable system.

Here is a link to a couple putting out 20 and 25Kw heating power.

LP Tankless Heater Ebay

Another One

[Moderator updated links]
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Until then, it's just more endless gloom and doom Veg folk law.
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Postby Welder » Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:12 pm

Thanks man. Those are cool.

I think one would be great in the back of my truck heating a tank of WVO for a Spinner CF to clean/dewater. I'd use a FPHE to transfer the propanes heat energy through the water and into the WVO. Yes, that would require 2 pumps, but it would be super safe (water doesn't start fires).
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Postby David » Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:27 am

I think You'll find those heaters have thermostats built in so heating your oil directly shouldn't be a problem. I think that's what you pay for with these things, safety devices that allow them to be run in RV's and caravans and the like without chance of mishap, or greatly reduced anyway.

I can't see any risk at all in running your oil directly through the heaters especially as at any decent flow they aren't going to be able to raise the temp all that much in a single pass.
_____________________

I don't give a damn about what might or could happen until a significant group of people can tell me it HAS happened to them.
Until then, it's just more endless gloom and doom Veg folk law.
David
 
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Location: Sydney Australia

Postby Burbarian » Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:53 am

I think these are fantastic. Runs on LNG/CNG, propane, so no gelling/viscosity problems on cold winter mornings. My only concern would be materials compatibility if running, as John Galt puts it, Weird Vegetable Oil through its innards. Running water through it would avoid any such potential material incompatibilities, and would allow simple plumbing to make use of the heat in various ways. From preheating the engine coolant to heating a drum of WVO. If you run vo through it, you'd probably not want to be running your engine coolant through it as well without a rather thorough flushing and cleaning. Water has twice to four times the heat capacity of oil anyway, so would make a good heat transport medium.

If collecting and processing on-the-go, it may be practical to harvest otherwise wasted engine exhaust heat with a water jacket, and circulate that for heating a metal drum full of wvo in addition to regular coolant heat.

Good post David. I may go this route on the Merc. I know it is just vanity and only superficial, but it is somehow less acceptable to bolt on various obviously jerry-rigged pipes and bits to a Merc as opposed to a GMC work truck.
1987 GMC Suburban 6.2L V8 IDI
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1971 Waldon 4100 loader
1981 IHI 30F excavator
1995 Changfa 195 w/ ST 10kw genset
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Postby Welder » Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:37 pm

I know most greasers use standard water heater elements directly submerged in their CF/bio reaction tanks, but I'd like to eliminate as much risk potential as possible. To that end, I've chosen to never, ever heat any flammable fluid with fire or electric elements directly. All my heating will involve heat exchangers. Aside from maybe causing a short circuit, I've never heard of water ever causing a fire. I've heard of it being used to put out fires, but never starting them.

I'm not attacking anyone elses strategy, I'm only trying to use the safest strategy possible. I'm not too pretty, so I need all my beauty sleep. Leaving a live element submerged in a vat of WVO would likely steal sleep from me. Although I will use double containment, if the primary vessel ever leaked and the fluid dropped enough to expose the heating element to air......

Where safety is concerned, can't beats won't. I mean, can't start a fire beats won't start a fire.
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Postby leftcoastjeff » Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:43 pm

Great thread.
Every old motorhome has a propane water heater, along with a 12V pump, regulator for propane, and sometimes a coolant heat exchanger built in to the water heater! To heat water while driving.
I don't like the idea of puting the oil directly in the water heater, FPHE sounds like a better idea.
I wonder if you could heat the engine lube and maybe the cab as well with the built in exchanger in the water heater?(through the cooling system)
'87F-250 stock, minus that pesky water seporator/air inlet, bone stock for now.

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Postby Welder » Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:43 am

I wonder if those cheaper $160 tankless propane water heaters are REALLY approved over here? (North America)

There was some sort of approval headstamp, but I don't have a clue if it is recognised by North American safety authorities (like NHTSA, DOT, Transport Canada, CMVSS etc)?

Anyone else know?
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Postby SunWizard » Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:49 am

No those agencies aren't recognized here. I don't think they are recognized anywhere, sort of a scam in my opinion. ISO9001 only applies to the factory process, not safety of product.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
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Postby Welder » Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:51 pm

That's what I thought.

I'd hate to get pulled over and crucified for having a non safety certified propane burning device operating on public roads.

Maybe I can find a used North American unit in good shape for a fair price.

I wonder how much they are new (burner and controls only)?
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Postby leftcoastjeff » Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:04 pm

Here's one;

http://www.campingworld.com/browse/skus ... kunum=3690

$399.00 and I remember will not stay lit when motoring, not intended for that use, but a stationary pre-heater sounds great, no messin with the man, just load it in the back, and it's cargo.

For that much $$$ I think you could build somthing with more power, seeing that it won't be used while motoring, there won't be any troubles.

A truck running on WVO, To be preheated with LPG, this sounds like throwing away money, although I haven't run across a WVO water heater, have you?
'87F-250 stock, minus that pesky water seporator/air inlet, bone stock for now.

Thomas Edison says it best, “Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work”.
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Postby Welder » Fri Apr 25, 2008 5:21 am

I have thought seriously about building a WVO boiler before, but couldn't choose between something like Fabricators burner or a horizontal Babington. Since the Babington needs compressed air, I was leaning towards a regular spray-by-oil-pressure type unit.

Then again, there's no reason a guy couldn't slap a boiler over the flame coming out of one of the burners shown here:

www.backyardmetalcasting.com

Maybe I should use a drip style burner with a recirculative low pressure boiler to heat a mobile centrifuge and pre-heat my engine.
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Postby David » Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:12 pm

i didn't like the idea of having to run a compressor all the time so I created a design that just uses forced air from a car blower or a reversed Vaccum cleaner as shown on the previous page.

If anyone has any concerns with saftey issues using a commercialy built water heater, running something like this is going to positively make you piss your pants so I don't think it would really be something you'd be at all comfortable with.

A truck running on WVO, To be preheated with LPG, this sounds like throwing away money, although I haven't run across a WVO water heater, have you?


leftcoastJeff,
the second image shows the Burner heating a gas water heater unit that had the gas burner removed ( for something with just a little more grunt :D )

The reason I suggested the instant gas units is because people seem to be very concerned with safety and a commercially built unit is going to satisfy these peoples concerns a whole lot better than a home made job be it a babbington or whatever. Of course now we are going full circle back to the WVO fuel/ Cost perspective which I sort of thought was getting ruled out from the saftey aspect which was why I suggested the Commercial water heater! :roll: :D

I think the answer the discussion is coming up with is that for most people, there is no satisfactory answer that people would be happy with in practice. :D
_____________________

I don't give a damn about what might or could happen until a significant group of people can tell me it HAS happened to them.
Until then, it's just more endless gloom and doom Veg folk law.
David
 
Posts: 333
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:12 am
Location: Sydney Australia

Postby SunWizard » Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:29 pm

David wrote:I think the answer the discussion is coming up with is that for most people, there is no satisfactory answer that people would be happy with in practice. :D

Yes you can never make this crowd happy unless you place them in front of a big dumpster of VO thats not too nasty :wink:
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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