1992 - Bluebird Bus WVO Conversion (Sunwizard) - Update 8/28

For discussing the modifications needed for diesel vehicles to run with 2 tank veggie oil conversions.

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Re: 1992 - Bluebird Bus WVO Conversion (5.9 Cummins - Sunwiz

Postby White99z » Tue May 20, 2014 7:54 pm

Moving right along! Parts arrived from 3 of 5 places today! Conversion is getting done on Monday tentatively. Also, we scored 80 gallons of WVO today! Woohoo! Settling it right now and will run it through the centrifuge on Thursday!!!
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Re: 1992 - Bluebird Bus WVO Conversion (5.9 Cummins - Sunwiz

Postby White99z » Wed May 28, 2014 6:00 am

We installed everything the last two days and finished late last night. We got it running on diesel again and it was running great. After ten minutes or so, it suddenly quit, as if someone turned off the ignition.

Since then, we can't get it to start or even sound like it wants to start. We have verified that diesel is getting to the engine fuel filter and beyond, and are attempting to bleed the injectors. No fuel is coming out of the injectors or at times it barely trickles out. After hours of troubleshooting with my friend, we are stuck and he had to go back to work. I now have the day to figure it out on my own. I figured I would post here asking for any suggestions before I get started. I am going to verify the routing of everything again and work from there.

Thanks in advance!
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Re: 1992 - Bluebird Bus WVO Conversion (5.9 Cummins - Sunwiz

Postby White99z » Wed May 28, 2014 6:09 am

Ps: I haven't filled the veggie tank or lines. Perhaps this could be the issue?
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Re: 1992 - Bluebird Bus WVO Conversion (5.9 Cummins - Sunwiz

Postby SunWizard » Wed May 28, 2014 9:01 am

White99z wrote:Ps: I haven't filled the veggie tank or lines. Perhaps this could be the issue?

Yes, it can allow air through the valves. Put a small amount of diesel in the WVO tank for testing, its easier to get through the lines and then you don't need to be warmed up to switch to that tank.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Re: 1992 - Bluebird Bus WVO Conversion (5.9 Cummins - Sunwiz

Postby White99z » Wed May 28, 2014 10:57 am

Still no luck... Before reading this, I gravity fed as much diesel into the lines as they would take. I have a 116 gallon wvo tank so I filled it perhaps 1/3 or more with wvo before reading this, in preparation for pressurizing the tank. I pressurized with a 10 gallon air tank and used the air from that to pressurize the wvo tank. It definitely took some wvo because I had fuel trickling out of a hose I opened up near the engine. I also put a glass in line filter leaving the tank to I could see wvo leaving. Still no luck with starting, although I am going for another fill up of the small air tank now. I'm in the middle of a field basically with no electricity or access to an air compressor. I can run the air tank to my friends house next door.
White99z
 
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Re: 1992 - Bluebird Bus WVO Conversion (5.9 Cummins - Sunwiz

Postby White99z » Wed May 28, 2014 10:15 pm

I need help!!!

I did this conversion across the state with a fellow school bus fan that has done two WVO conversions on buses. We are both at a loss on what to do.

I re verified all the connections in the last few hours of the night and shortened hoses to more appropriate lengths (we had a lot of slack), reconnected a lot of stuff, etc. I found two possible points of interest... One line on the wvo side going to the heat exchanger was kinked and one hose, the 3/16" return line that T's into the veggie line was a faulty line and was completely collapsed.

I fixed that and still nothing. I am basically stranded here now and don't know where to turn.

What to troubleshoot? How to purge air from the lines? I have pressurized the wvo tank several times and we added an electric fuel pump on the diesel side to try prime the lines. Still nothing.

I am at a huge loss I. What to do next?

A couple things:
1. I can see the veggie filter is filled with diesel via the drain bowl.

2. Even when I crack the injectors to bleed, I get no fuel, but fuel is flowing via tests at several places.

3. It ran great when we finished and stopped suddenly.
White99z
 
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Re: 1992 - Bluebird Bus WVO Conversion (5.9 Cummins - Sunwiz

Postby White99z » Wed May 28, 2014 10:17 pm

Engine cranks fast. Jumper cables were connected before we even attempted to get it started.
Injectors are cracked with little to no fuel coming out
We double checked the routing of the fuel lines
Installed an electric fuel pump near the diesel tank
Checked to make sure fuel is being returned to the diesel tank
Primed the wvo side of the system
Checked to make sure the electric fuel shutoff solenoid in the side if the injector pump is working
Put 10 gallons of diesel fuel into the tank to make sure it wasn't low

Fuel is definitely circulating through the lift pump, filter, into the injector pump and returning to the tank.
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Re: 1992 - Bluebird Bus WVO Conversion (5.9 Cummins - Sunwiz

Postby SunWizard » Wed May 28, 2014 10:52 pm

What is the fuel pressure? Get a guage if you don't have one.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Re: 1992 - Bluebird Bus WVO Conversion (5.9 Cummins - Sunwiz

Postby White99z » Thu May 29, 2014 5:51 am

I don't have a pressure gauge. If I get one, where do I install it?
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Re: 1992 - Bluebird Bus WVO Conversion (5.9 Cummins - Sunwiz

Postby SunWizard » Thu May 29, 2014 8:55 am

Put a tee after the lift pump, before the IP. If the pressure is good, then the lift pump and filter are OK. If either of those fail, or if there is too much air, or a bad regulator (overflow valve) the pressure will be low.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1723
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Location: N. Colorado

Re: 1992 - Bluebird Bus WVO Conversion (5.9 Cummins - Sunwiz

Postby White99z » Thu May 29, 2014 9:14 am

SunWizard wrote:Put a tee after the lift pump, before the IP. If the pressure is good, then the lift pump and filter are OK. If either of those fail, or if there is too much air, or a bad regulator (overflow valve) the pressure will be low.


I replaced the fuel filter this morning before reading this. It was not completely full of fuel... perhaps 1/3 full. I didn't know how long the one had been on there, so I just took it off and put a new one on for safekeeping.

Took a day away from the bus for R&R at my friend's house today.

I am happy to get a fuel pressure gauge tomorrow and throw it in there. I am almost positive that the engine isn't getting fuel just because of the circumstances.... thinking air in the lines somewhere. It seems weird that the lift pump would fail the same exact moment we happen to be working on the bus! Where's this regulator/overflow valve you are talking about?

If we get a fuel pressure gauge and the culprit is that there is too much air in the fuel lines (my thoughts), what are my next steps?

I do have one thought that the sending lines from the tank are bad. They are half inch and I was planning on replacing them, but didn't order 1/2" fuel line as I thought they were 3/8". They travel to a Racor water separator/fuel filter down the line, on the frame rail, before going into the lift pump. The hoses are cracking, no hose clamps on the barbs, and the connections look very bad. I am thinking this is a likely culprit for a huge air leak. But even then... when I fix that, I am left with a large sending line with no fuel in it. How to I get fuel into these lines?
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Re: 1992 - Bluebird Bus WVO Conversion (5.9 Cummins - Sunwiz

Postby White99z » Thu May 29, 2014 9:19 am

What pressure should be registering at the gauge?
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Re: 1992 - Bluebird Bus WVO Conversion (5.9 Cummins - Sunwiz

Postby SunWizard » Thu May 29, 2014 2:10 pm

Which lift pump do you have, piston or diagphram? Either one should be at least 5 psi while cranking. Piston gets to 35 psi, others I don't have but read it does about 15. Get all air out of every line and filter anyway you can, with a pump, or gravity. I put air pressure in my WVO tank with diesel in it, turned valves to VO, and opened a line right before the IP and let it flow until no air coming out, which worked perfectly and took about 2 minutes, see my thread you started from for this info and more that you are asking. Same on D2 side, but I never got much air in there so it took only a few seconds to get out. If you don't get air out of both diesel and WVO sides, and now that you started it with air in lines, you have got air in the IP and injector lines too, it will not start and you are wasting time and wear on the starter by cranking.

Overflow valve is top of IP where return line comes out. Google: P7100 overflow valve. Not likely your problem here.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1723
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Location: N. Colorado

Re: 1992 - Bluebird Bus WVO Conversion (5.9 Cummins - Sunwiz

Postby White99z » Thu May 29, 2014 2:52 pm

SunWizard wrote:Which lift pump do you have, piston or diagphram? Either one should be at least 5 psi while cranking. Piston gets to 35 psi, others I don't have but read it does about 15. Get all air out of every line and filter anyway you can, with a pump, or gravity. I put air pressure in my WVO tank with diesel in it, turned valves to VO, and opened a line right before the IP and let it flow until no air coming out, which worked perfectly and took about 2 minutes, see my thread you started from for this info and more that you are asking. Same on D2 side, but I never got much air in there so it took only a few seconds to get out. If you don't get air out of both diesel and WVO sides, and now that you started it with air in lines, you have got air in the IP and injector lines too, it will not start and you are wasting time and wear on the starter by cranking.

Overflow valve is top of IP where return line comes out. Google: P7100 overflow valve. Not likely your problem here.


I have a 92 Bus, but it has a Bosch P7100 piston lift pump on the engine.
White99z
 
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Re: 1992 - Bluebird Bus WVO Conversion (5.9 Cummins - Sunwiz

Postby White99z » Thu May 29, 2014 2:54 pm

How can I best remove air from the diesel side without starting and cranking? We put in an electric fuel pump on the send line from the tank, before all the connections were made, in hopes that it can help to prime the system easier.
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