1992 - Bluebird Bus WVO Conversion (Sunwizard) - Update 8/28

For discussing the modifications needed for diesel vehicles to run with 2 tank veggie oil conversions.

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Re: 1992 - Bluebird Bus WVO Conversion (5.9 Cummins - Sunwiz

Postby SunWizard » Thu May 29, 2014 3:18 pm

White99z wrote:How can I best remove air from the diesel side without starting and cranking? We put in an electric fuel pump on the send line from the tank, before all the connections were made, in hopes that it can help to prime the system easier.


Use the pump, open a line right before the IP and let it flow until no air coming out.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Re: 1992 - Bluebird Bus WVO Conversion (5.9 Cummins - Sunwiz

Postby White99z » Thu May 29, 2014 5:13 pm

After hours of research today (and according to your last post), I learned that I was only bleeding the high pressure side of the fuel system and leaving the low pressure alone. The low pressure side feeds the high pressure, so this could explain why we aren't getting fuel to the engine if there's lots of air down there. I found this handy diagram that lays it all out for the non-mechanic in me:

http://www.justanswer.com/dodge/7ajpm-r ... ns-12.html

Crossing my fingers that this works in the morning and I can be on my way home. In theory, this would explain why there is no fuel getting to the injectors when I am bleeding them, I believe.

Does your knowledge of the system coincide with this SunWizard? Do I bleed by cracking open the second screw on to of the filter (closest to front of vehicle)?
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Re: 1992 - Bluebird Bus WVO Conversion (5.9 Cummins - Sunwiz

Postby SunWizard » Thu May 29, 2014 5:23 pm

White99z wrote:Does your knowledge of the system coincide with this SunWizard? Do I bleed by cracking open the second screw on to of the filter (closest to front of vehicle)?

Yes you can do it that way, but easier and more effective is unhook a line just before the IP as I have said 3x. And then you can catch what comes out instead of dripping all over.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Re: 1992 - Bluebird Bus WVO Conversion (5.9 Cummins - Sunwiz

Postby White99z » Fri May 30, 2014 3:56 am

Got a pressure gauge and a little more knowledge. Headed to the bus right now. Thanks for all your help!!! It is much appreciated.

Jeremy
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Re: 1992 - Bluebird Bus WVO Conversion (5.9 Cummins - Sunwiz

Postby White99z » Fri May 30, 2014 6:11 am

We have a line going straight from a fuel can into the electric fuel pump now. We hooked this up on a circuit to bleed the low pressure side. It took a while. There definitely was air in there. We hooked it the injection pump/fuel filter circuit after this and tried to fire it up. I think the lines from the tank or the stock favor filter/water trap were introducing air. Now we have eliminated that section though.

We actually got fuel to come out at 5 of the 6 injectors this time while cranking. And... It tried to start on its own a couple times. I am still baffled though. Still not starting.

Also, we got the fuel pressure gauge setup. It either doesn't register at all or very little while cranking, but this coincides with what you said earlier ~5psi while cranking.

Any thoughts?
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Re: 1992 - Bluebird Bus WVO Conversion (5.9 Cummins - Sunwiz

Postby White99z » Fri May 30, 2014 6:30 am

I just had a thought... On all the fittings, I used plumbing pipe joint compound. Just realized today that the diesel dissolves this stuff... Not good. Perhaps all of my connections are compromised? What should I use... Or should this have been suitable?
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Re: 1992 - Bluebird Bus WVO Conversion (5.9 Cummins - Sunwiz

Postby SunWizard » Fri May 30, 2014 9:38 am

>5 psi should show on a guage. Probably still have air somewhere, or a plugged filter. Check if there is a pre-filter screen before the lift pump that is clogged.

Get all air out of the VO side also. Pipe compound is bad but would not cause this problem.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
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Re: 1992 - Bluebird Bus WVO Conversion (5.9 Cummins - Sunwiz

Postby White99z » Fri May 30, 2014 10:34 am

SunWizard wrote:>5 psi should show on a guage. Probably still have air somewhere, or a plugged filter. Check if there is a pre-filter screen before the lift pump that is clogged.

Get all air out of the VO side also. Pipe compound is bad but would not cause this problem.


I am about 30 minutes from calling a tow truck to take me home. I just can't figure it out. I don't know how to check for a pre filter screen... Just a fuel hose going in, but I am getting fuel at the top of the filter and at the T. No fuel pressure though...
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Re: 1992 - Bluebird Bus WVO Conversion (5.9 Cummins - Sunwiz

Postby SunWizard » Fri May 30, 2014 11:17 am

White99z wrote: I just can't figure it out. I don't know how to check for a pre filter screen...

Follow the fuel line going into the lift pump, look at every connection until you get back to the tank. Often there is a screen in the tank outlet that can plug also, but it sounds like you are bypassed the tank now. Dodge cummins have a pre-filter in the preheater assembly that is a few inches from the lift pump. If you have the air out, remove the electric pump since it will just slow down the much stronger stock lift pump.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
Site Admin
 
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Re: 1992 - Bluebird Bus WVO Conversion (5.9 Cummins - Sunwiz

Postby White99z » Fri May 30, 2014 5:06 pm

SunWizard wrote:
White99z wrote: I just can't figure it out. I don't know how to check for a pre filter screen...

Follow the fuel line going into the lift pump, look at every connection until you get back to the tank. Often there is a screen in the tank outlet that can plug also, but it sounds like you are bypassed the tank now. Dodge cummins have a pre-filter in the preheater assembly that is a few inches from the lift pump. If you have the air out, remove the electric pump since it will just slow down the much stronger stock lift pump.


I thought about that later in the day and did remove the electric pump. Still no luck. I can't imagine priming the bus lines with the manual plunger... Yikes.

A tow truck is on it's way. I'm ready to go home.

I will tackle it again early next week. I've done everything I can possibly do and will enlist help. We have two family members who are diesel mechanics and have offered to come help.

As for the electric pump... Do you think it would be beneficial to plumb it in parallel with the valve so we can choose stock routing or prime the lines at the flick of a switch?
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Re: 1992 - Bluebird Bus WVO Conversion (5.9 Cummins - Sunwiz

Postby SunWizard » Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:28 pm

White99z wrote:As for the electric pump... Do you think it would be beneficial to plumb it in parallel with the valve so we can choose stock routing or prime the lines at the flick of a switch?

No since once the air is out of that line there is no need to do it ever again, and there are other simpler ways to get the air out as I listed above.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1719
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:53 pm
Location: N. Colorado

Re: 1992 - Bluebird Bus WVO Conversion (5.9 Cummins - Sunwiz

Postby White99z » Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:54 pm

I had to get it towed back home. Thank goodness for AAA. Back at it tomorrow. Now that I have electricity, I will pressurize each tank and bleed that way. I took the electric diesel pump out of the line. I also replaced the questionable 1/2" fuel line coming from the tank. Wish me luck!
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Re: 1992 - Bluebird Bus WVO Conversion (5.9 Cummins - Sunwiz

Postby White99z » Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:22 pm

Well... I pressurized both the veggie tank and diesel tank today and tried to start. I also went back to the basics and tire pumping the hand primer til it was hard to push in, then tried to start. I repeated that for well over an hour to no avail. I did, however, find that I had a light leak at the connection of diesel into the diesel filter, as well as my tank valve is leaking. I didn't fix either because I decided to pack it in at 5 pm today. I will fix both in the morning. I do imagine that the bad connection at the tank valve can introduce air. Could that be enough to cause these starting woes? Thoughts?
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Re: 1992 - Bluebird Bus WVO Conversion (5.9 Cummins - Sunwiz

Postby SunWizard » Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:47 pm

Yes any tiny leak can cause large starting problems after it sits a while as I mentioned back near the start of this thread. They must be fixed. Pushing the hand primer is not worth it if you can put air pressure in tank since thats much quicker. Opening a line right before IP, or top of filter, is the key part of any method since then you can see when the air is out. Are you opening a line after you pressurize? If not, there is no place for fuel and air to get out (the return won't flow until pressure hits 35 psi - don't apply that high of pressure to the tank.)

Or add a clear inline filter which allows you to see air too, and you can move it around starting at IP and moving it back towards tank until you hit a point with no air leak. Then you know right where the air is getting in.

Are you keeping the injector nuts loose until fuel comes out all? The air in the injector lines can't get out without that.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1719
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:53 pm
Location: N. Colorado

Re: 1992 - Bluebird Bus WVO Conversion (5.9 Cummins - Sunwiz

Postby White99z » Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:35 pm

I have been opening the line before the IP to bleed the line. I have also been opening the injector lines but not all at once. Am I correct in thinking this only works when cranking?
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