'87 Detroit Diesel Ford B700 first time conversion -- help!

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'87 Detroit Diesel Ford B700 first time conversion -- help!

Postby thecaster » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:27 am

I feel like I'm getting close to reading everything there is on the internet about this, but I've still got some questions. Thanks so much to the likes of Dana Linscott, SunWizard, john galt, White 99z and more for helping clarify all the variables to me.

I've got a 1987 Detroit Diesel 8.2L Ford B700 school bus that I want to prep for Burning Man this year. This bus has a mechanical fuel pump and no injector pump. I've got 500 gallons of VO, a filtration system and the climate will be hot.

There's a heat exchanger/radiator in the cab of the bus next to the driver's seat with 3 squirrel cage fans—I don't like it much, there's a leak in it, and I can't use right now. I am going to tear that out, and install a small diesel fuel tank which will only be used for startup and to warm the coolant. I want to put what I think is called a manual 3-way ball valve in, to switch between diesel and VO lines, and make it accessible from within the cab. The VO line will go to a 30 plate FPHE, and then to the injector rack. The coolant lines that went to the previous heat exchanger/radiator will be reused for the FPHE.
http://www.wvodesigns.com/products-8/wv ... /fphe.html

The return line will be kept in place—this means diesel fuel will be returned to the veggie tank, and so will hot veggie oil. I think the return lines will return at a rate of approximately .1 gpm. Is this okay? Or do I absolutely need to loop the return line/keep two separate return lines?

  1. Do you think I can get by in this bus installing ONLY the FPHE? No hose in hose, no heated tank, no VegTherm Mega? It's going to be HOT outside.
  2. Do I need to install a fuel pressure gauge to see how much the FPHE will offset the fuel pressure? Do I need to install a temperature monitor? The bus currently has NO TEMPERATURE MONITOR. How/many where should they be?
  3. Should I get injector line heaters? Or, will they simply cause polymerization in the injector lines? http://www.fattywagons.com/fwproducts.htm
  4. Do I need to install a lift pump? If I put the FPHE in BEFORE the fuel pump, will it make the veggie oil hot enough that it relieves the fuel pump of premature stress/ware? Plus, if we're worried about heat I can put the injector line heaters in to give it a boost post-fuel pump.

Thanks! Will be posting pictures. I buy the parts and prepare this week (July 20-26), start on it next week (July 27-Aug 2).
thecaster
 
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Re: '87 Detroit Diesel Ford B700 first time conversion -- he

Postby SunWizard » Fri Jul 18, 2014 10:46 am

thecaster wrote:The return line will be kept in place—this means diesel fuel will be returned to the veggie tank, and so will hot veggie oil. I think the return lines will return at a rate of approximately .1 gpm. Is this okay? Or do I absolutely need to loop the return line/keep two separate return lines?

Not OK even at that flow, and the return flow is probably higher than that.
Do you think I can get by in this bus installing ONLY the FPHE? No hose in hose, no heated tank, no VegTherm Mega? It's going to be HOT outside.

Yes, easily since the rest is for cold weather.
Do I need to install a fuel pressure gauge to see how much the FPHE will offset the fuel pressure?

Yes but not for that reason. Its to see if your filter is getting blocked or other trouble like bad lift pump or air getting in.
Do I need to install a temperature monitor? The bus currently has NO TEMPERATURE MONITOR. How/many where should they be?

1 guage on the coolant so you know when to switch over. I have 1 on my WVO line and its kind of a waste since it always reads within 10 degrees of the coolant guage.
Should I get injector line heaters? Or, will they simply cause polymerization in the injector lines? http://www.fattywagons.com/fwproducts.htm

NO! FPHE is far better and plenty of heat.
Do I need to install a lift pump? If I put the FPHE in BEFORE the fuel pump, will it make the veggie oil hot enough that it relieves the fuel pump of premature stress/ware? Plus, if we're worried about heat I can put the injector line heaters in to give it a boost post-fuel pump.

I don't know the fuel system on that. What you call the mechanical fuel pump may be what we call the lift pump, and if its strong enough to pump the thicker WVO it should be fine. It has to have an injection pump (IP) since it takes at least 2000 psi to get the fuel to spray into cylinders since the air in there is compressed to around 500 psi at the time of needing fuel injected. Lift pump gets the fuel to the IP at 10 to 50 psi depending on design, then IP boosts pressure to >2000 psi. Yours could have unit injectors where they are right on top of each cylinder, and that functions as the IP.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Re: '87 Detroit Diesel Ford B700 first time conversion -- he

Postby thecaster » Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:15 pm

Thanks again SunWu. :)

I just bought some heat exchangers and barb adaptors. Is it ok to do 1/2 inch ID for everything, or will it restrict the flow too much?
thecaster
 
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Re: '87 Detroit Diesel Ford B700 first time conversion -- he

Postby SunWizard » Sat Jul 26, 2014 6:27 pm

thecaster wrote:I just bought some heat exchangers and barb adaptors. Is it ok to do 1/2 inch ID for everything, or will it restrict the flow too much?

Stay with the size of stock heater hose, which should be bigger than that, mine was 5/8 and yours might be bigger. If you are talking fuel line, same idea, stay with stock size. Mine was 3/8.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
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Re: '87 Detroit Diesel Ford B700 first time conversion -- he

Postby thecaster » Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:18 pm

SunWizard wrote:
thecaster wrote:I just bought some heat exchangers and barb adaptors. Is it ok to do 1/2 inch ID for everything, or will it restrict the flow too much?

Stay with the size of stock heater hose, which should be bigger than that, mine was 5/8 and yours might be bigger. If you are talking fuel line, same idea, stay with stock size. Mine was 3/8.


My stock coolant hose is 1 inch wide.

If I have a heat exchanger than is 1/2 inch ID, is that ok? Or should I really get wider ports?

I just got some three way ball valves—they have a true ID of 1/4 inch at the ball itself, even though the fittings are for 1/2 inch. Do I need to return them?

Do the diameters of these tubes matter at all? Would two small a diameter cause the pressure to be too high?
thecaster
 
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Re: '87 Detroit Diesel Ford B700 first time conversion -- he

Postby SunWizard » Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:53 pm

thecaster wrote:If I have a heat exchanger than is 1/2 inch ID, is that ok? Or should I really get wider ports?

Bigger is better but gets real expensive. Smaller means more restriction and loss of flow, its probably still big enough. The loss is much more with too small of hose compared to 2 restrictions at the FPHE inlet & outlet. If its 1/2" NPT pipe threads they measure .84" OD and 5/8 ID if you use 5/8 fittings like I did.
I just got some three way ball valves—they have a true ID of 1/4 inch at the ball itself, even though the fittings are for 1/2 inch. Do I need to return them?

For coolant, way too small. For fuel, that may be OK but bigger is better, same as above answer.
Do the diameters of these tubes matter at all? Would two small a diameter cause the pressure to be too high?

Pressure is not the problem its loss of flow rate when too small of hose. Bigger flow rate means more heat transfer in FPHE. Too much loss on fuel line means it might lose power under hard loads.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
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Re: '87 Detroit Diesel Ford B700 first time conversion -- he

Postby thecaster » Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:15 pm

SunWizard wrote:For coolant, way too small. For fuel, that may be OK but bigger is better, same as above answer.


The fuel hose is OD 1" so ID I would guess is closer to 3/4". The 1/4" ID 3-way ball valves—not to small for the fuel hose? You did say the diameter of the hose matters more than the valve.
thecaster
 
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Re: '87 Detroit Diesel Ford B700 first time conversion -- he

Postby White99z » Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:20 pm

thecaster wrote:
SunWizard wrote:For coolant, way too small. For fuel, that may be OK but bigger is better, same as above answer.


The fuel hose is OD 1" so ID I would guess is closer to 3/4". The 1/4" ID 3-way ball valves—not to small for the fuel hose? You did say the diameter of the hose matters more than the valve.


You can get 3/8" ID ball valves. This is what we used on our bus. I bought them from a different distributor. iBoats.com I think. I ordered them off the link in Sunwizard's conversion thread.

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/us ... ?pid=56223
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