Question on filtering and dewatering

Collecting, filtering and dewatering of WVO SVO vegetable oil. For Biodiesel producers too.

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Question on filtering and dewatering

Postby Rkmcdon » Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:35 pm

I've built a centrigue system with a dieselcraft oc-20 using Sunwizards write up ( http://www.burnveg.com/centrifuge-2.htm ). Does WVO filtered this way typically need an additional dewatering step? I tested my first batch tonight with the hpt and it had way too many bubbles. Now, upon rereading, I realized my mistake (not catching the centrifuge dumb after turning the pump off), but the error has me worried that I may not be doing enough to get my oil cleaned and dewatered.

My process is straining through a 200micron filter into my centrifuge drum. Running for 3 hours at 160-190 degrees, 80psi, then pumping into 30 gallon blue plastic drums sealed tight. I have no plans to use any type of additive at this point, but am open to the possibility if that is a beneficial step (from my reading, it doesn't seem to be necessary). I'll test each batch with HPT, but I'm curious if i'm being overly optimistic to expect adequate results from this method.

I'm still a few months from having my landcruiser up and running with its 4bt, so I have time to make modifications. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Rodney
1969 FJ55 Project - Planned: 4bt swap, spring over, locking diffs, 35" BFG MT's and of course...veggie power!
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Re: Question on filtering and dewatering

Postby John Galt » Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:56 pm

WVO filtered this way typically need an additional dewatering step?


It might, UVO is far too variable to make a definitive statement in answer to your question.

The only way to know is by testing for water as you have or with other better methods.

http://www.make-biodiesel.org/Quality-T ... n-wvo.html

How do you intend to use the VO in your Landcruiser?
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Re: Question on filtering and dewatering

Postby Rkmcdon » Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:05 am

Thanks John. I plan refilter a batch this week. I'll HPT it after to see and I've also ordered some FFA test strips to get an idea of my FFA content as well.

I'm going to have a 2 tank system warmed by coolant. It's pretty much the 2 tank system sunwizard has posted here with accompanying diagram. cummins-wvo-conversion-t28.html
1969 FJ55 Project - Planned: 4bt swap, spring over, locking diffs, 35" BFG MT's and of course...veggie power!
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Re: Question on filtering and dewatering

Postby SunWizard » Tue Sep 16, 2014 1:50 pm

If your WVO has lots of water, don't pump the bottom few inches from the barrel, and you may want a few days settling before CF. Because the CF can only remove a small amount of free water with each time you stop and catch the output, it could take a long time if there is lots of water. Also, is your output of the CF open to the air? That is important to get it dewatered further after the free water is gone.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Re: Question on filtering and dewatering

Postby Rkmcdon » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:21 am

SunWizard wrote:Also, is your output of the CF open to the air? That is important to get it dewatered further after the free water is gone.


Alright, so the good news is, I refiltered a batch last night. Brought it up to temp, switched on the centrifuge then after an our, shut it down, collected the run off and emptied the centrifuge. After that, I started it back up, ran it another 2 hours, repeated. Reran the HPT and not a single bubble!

My centrifuge sits down below the top edge of my 55 gallon drum, but the output is definitely open to the air. I assume you are suggesting run it with the lid closed? I had considered doing this, but wont that pretty much eliminate evaporative loses? I don't know how much evaporative loss aids in the dewatering, but had assumed it was a significant contributor. Is that not the case?

Also, is there a way to run the HPT without smoking up the house? I smear oil on the bottom of the pan, heat the pan until it smokes then pour a layer of oil to cover the bottom. Man does it create a lot of smoke
1969 FJ55 Project - Planned: 4bt swap, spring over, locking diffs, 35" BFG MT's and of course...veggie power!
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Re: Question on filtering and dewatering

Postby SunWizard » Wed Sep 17, 2014 12:32 pm

Rkmcdon wrote:right, so the good news is, I refiltered a batch last night. Brought it up to temp, switched on the centrifuge then after an our, shut it down, collected the run off and emptied the centrifuge. After that, I started it back up, ran it another 2 hours, repeated. Reran the HPT and not a single bubble!

Good!
My centrifuge sits down below the top edge of my 55 gallon drum, but the output is definitely open to the air. I assume you are suggesting run it with the lid closed?

No, I suggested open to the air, not closed.
I had considered doing this, but wont that pretty much eliminate evaporative loses? I don't know how much evaporative loss aids in the dewatering, but had assumed it was a significant contributor.

Evap. is big. Don't know where you read about closed?
Also, is there a way to run the HPT without smoking up the house? I smear oil on the bottom of the pan, heat the pan until it smokes then pour a layer of oil to cover the bottom. Man does it create a lot of smoke

Yes heat only until the very 1st bit of smoke, then it has tiny effect in house since the smoke stops immediately after you pour in the layer of cold WVO. And you stop heating before the new cold WVO start to smoke, since you look for bubbles only for the first 2 seconds.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Re: Question on filtering and dewatering

Postby Rkmcdon » Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:01 pm

SunWizard wrote:
Rkmcdon wrote:Evap. is big. Don't know where you read about closed?
Also, is there a way to run the HPT without smoking up the house? I smear oil on the bottom of the pan, heat the pan until it smokes then pour a layer of oil to cover the bottom. Man does it create a lot of smoke

Yes heat only until the very 1st bit of smoke, then it has tiny effect in house since the smoke stops immediately after you pour in the layer of cold WVO. And you stop heating before the new cold WVO start to smoke, since you look for bubbles only for the first 2 seconds.


I had misinterpreted your prior post when you asked if my output was open to the air. For some reason my mind jumped to the conclusion that you meant this was bad. Sorry about that. I have always ran open top.

Thanks for the additional info. I was heating my oil too long it appears. That will make my wife happy.

I'll use this week to respin my samples, pump it into my plastic barrels and seal it up.

Do either of you use any additive in your storage containers or tanks?
1969 FJ55 Project - Planned: 4bt swap, spring over, locking diffs, 35" BFG MT's and of course...veggie power!
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Re: Question on filtering and dewatering

Postby SunWizard » Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:29 pm

Rkmcdon wrote:Do either of you use any additive in your storage containers or tanks?

No. Minimum amount of air is key since oxygen is needed for poly.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Re: Question on filtering and dewatering

Postby John Galt » Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:32 pm

Rkmcdon wrote:
Do either of you use any additive in your storage containers or tanks?
Also, is there a way to run the HPT without smoking up the house?



Yes. I use: stale jetB, or kerosene & petrol. It stops polymerization and helps fats and hydrogenated oil settle out of winter fuel.

For the HPT use a small smear and do what SW says, and turn on the range hood fan.
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