FPHE Plate Number

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FPHE Plate Number

Postby Tmaxxrox97 » Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:02 pm

Hello all!

I'm working on a conversion for my 1998 12 valve Cummins and I bought a filter heat exchanger combo and the seller didn't list how many plates were in it (I probably should have looked more before hand :P ...) and after some research I found out that its just a VW heavy duty oil cooler.

Heres a picture of it cut in half.

Image

Could someone tell me how many plates this has (not sure how its counted exactly..) and if this will be enough heat for my truck.

I do live in northern Minnesota where it can get to -20 F several times a year.

Any help would be much appreciated!

Thanks much.
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Re: FPHE Plate Number

Postby John Galt » Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:48 pm

It's not just the number of plates, but rather the total plate area that's important. Figure the area of one plate times the number of plates.

A typical FPHE for an engine that size in a cold climate would be a 20 plate @ 3" x 7"; with about 400 sq inches of heat transfer surface.
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Re: FPHE Plate Number

Postby Tmaxxrox97 » Sun Oct 19, 2014 8:38 pm

Ok.
Thanks for the reply.

So after doing some quick math I get about 159 in^2 (pi x 1.75^2 minus the area of the inner hole pi x .5^2 then times 18 plates).

So clearly I need more heat. About twice to three times the surface area.

Thanks again.
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Re: FPHE Plate Number

Postby dragonfly » Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:41 pm

There are many FPHEs on the Web that vary in the number of plates. The one you cut in half is called a 10 plate FPHE used and is used to pre heat and filter the VO from the fuel tank. Living is those cold temps, the larger the FPHE, 16 to 40 plates, are used to put a lot of heat in the VO. Running VO, heat is the engine's best friend. Hopefully, you have a heated VO fuel pick up (HIH) system and return line to the VO tank, insulation around the VO tank as well. Might suggest putting the closed foam cell pipe insulation abound the VO fuel lines that are located in the engine room.
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Re: FPHE Plate Number

Postby fueljoule » Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:30 pm

Sorry for potentially bumping an old thread.

It was definitely useful to know that SA, not plate number, is what's most important for your FPHE. I hoped by bumping I could get a second opinion or two on the optimal number for the SA. Not that I don't trust you, John! It would just be nice to have somebody else confirm some good surface areas for various climates.
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Re: FPHE Plate Number

Postby Tmaxxrox97 » Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:36 pm

So far I've had good success with my 20 plate from WVO designs and the oil cooler mentioned above which adds up to be about 600 square inches plus what's added by the HIH.
With that being said I would only take my input with a grain of salt as I've only had my conversion running for a few weeks and haven't been below 40 degrees with it. Hopefully someone more experienced can jump in and help out a little.
But as dragonfly said:
dragonfly wrote:Running VO, heat is the engine's best friend.

So I'm sure that the more heat you can put into it the better. Having the capability to put in a lot of heat can't hurt too much because you can always reduce coolant flow through the system, but once at max you can't increase it.

Just my two cents.
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Re: FPHE Plate Number

Postby John Galt » Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:15 pm

For operating in a cold climate where it snows, a good estimate of the minimum Heat Exchange Surface Area in sq inches is the engine displacement in liters x 10.

It's also important for optimum heat transfer to place the FPHE on it's own parallel coolant loop, separate from any other VO heating in series on another parallel loop.
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Re: FPHE Plate Number

Postby centrifuge marty » Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:02 am

Where I live is also very cold in the winter time -30. On my 96 cummins I run a 30 plate heat exchanger also a megatherm electric heat as well just before injection pump.
The hot coolant comes out of the motor straight into the fphe then to my heated filter then back to my arctic fox in tank heater, that way the most heat goes to heat exchanger first. I have run this setup in very cold weather with the rad covered and had no issues getting 160 oil except if I was coasting down hill or going through town which I would then turn on electric heat. Summer time it runs 170 oil with electric off. Go big if its cold where you live.
1996 Dodge Cummins extended cab 4x4
2-Tank veg oil conversion based on sunwizard design
Plantdrive VM2 filter, 30 fphe, arctic fox in tank heater, manual valves
I love The Smell
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Re: FPHE Plate Number

Postby dragonfly » Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:58 am

Another item that I have found that helps the coolant circulation to the In-Tank-Heat-Exchanger is a Mercedes Benz Aux water pump (000 835 6964). MB uses it to push water to the cab heat exchanger. By adding the pump to PUSH coolant water, the switch over time to VO is reduced. The engine water pump is designed to circulate block water over a short distance, not the length to the VO fuel tank. I have wired the aux pump to the ignition switch. With -30F temps, I'd insulate (closed cell for air conditioning - Armaflex) the HIH or HOH and VO fuel lines and FPHE in the engine room.
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Re: FPHE Plate Number

Postby John Galt » Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:35 pm

An aux water pump is not required if you correctly connect the FPHE with it's own dedicated coolant loop. Placing the FPHE in series with other heaters significantly increases flow resistance and thus reduces the coolant flow through all the heaters in series.

It's just basic thermodynamics and good heat transfer engineering that's used in every hydronic heating system.
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Re: FPHE Plate Number

Postby David » Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:10 am

Forget about surface area. All these HE's have a KW rating. If you do the math, it's easy to see a 20 Plate HE which puts out over 20 Kw is more than amply sufficent to heat a flow of 1L min of oil.
Many people don't plumb the HE's in correctly however and allow an amount of coolant to go right round the HE and bypass it therefore reducing the output of the He significantly. ALL the coolant must always flow through the HE no matter what size it is.

It should also be realized that despite popular and long parroted crap, Heating the oil as hot as possible is a complete fallacy. Once the oil is up to 40oC, the amount it's viscosity is reduced falls off exponentially. The difference between 40o oil and 80o oil is too little for any pump that should be running WVO to even notice. All Ip's have a wide tolerance for viscosity which is why they will tolerate veg in the first place. If you look up what inling and rotary pumps viscosity limits are and compare that with veg at certain temps, You will see if you can get the veg to flow down the fuel line in the first place the IP will handle it.

The only thing one really needs to worry about is having the oil hot enough to pass through the filters without leaving fat deposits. From there the heat of the IP itself will be the controlling influence on the oil and the injectors dictate what temp it is fired into the engine and how it sprays.
_____________________

I don't give a damn about what might or could happen until a significant group of people can tell me it HAS happened to them.
Until then, it's just more endless gloom and doom Veg folk law.
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Re: FPHE Plate Number

Postby dragonfly » Wed Jun 24, 2015 12:40 am

MB IPs can handle cold VO as attested by all the one-tankers on the road. I had a '80 MB 300D with a two tank system that ran very well until I decided to try a cold start on cold VO over the next three months. The price I paid was a in-car ring job - $500 in parts. Again I say, the hotter the VO the better the engine will run. The original question was about the number of plates in the VW oil cooler. Gault gave is good info. There are smaller oil coolers (Elsbit) on the market, but I think the VW is the most used. I always change the thermostat from the 80C (176F) to an 82C (180F). With my bad ring coking experience, I will not switch until the temp gauge is above the 80C mark. I also have installed a sight glass on the input of the return solenoid that will enable me to see the color of the fuel - VO darker than D2 Lighter. It is a better check to verify the IP and injection lines are running on D2.
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