HHO generators Hydrogen or Browns gas injection

Single Tank WVO systems and blending SVO WVO to thin it.

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HHO generators Hydrogen or Browns gas injection

Postby denson » Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:41 pm

I've seen these for sale on E-bay. basically a device that separates oxygen and hydrogen from water and turns it into a gas form [oxy-hydrogen] through the process of electrolysis(run electric current through the water). The gas is then injected via air intake into the cylinder. Oxy-hydrogen or browns gas is very explosive and cannot be stored under any circumstances, it must be burned as it is produced. My question is, could theese devices help to get a more complete burn of the WVO in the cylinder?
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Postby SunWizard » Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:56 pm

No. Its a scam. If you want to create HHO by electrolysis of water, the best HHO generators are 70% efficient. Then you burn it in an engine that is 30% efficient, or a fuel cell that is 40% eff. and costs >$100k. So you get 21% to 28% of the power you started with. See Hydrogen economy

Brown's gas is even worse than straight HHO hydrogen and is basically a way to confuse the people who don't understand it and make them even easier to scam.

Along with all the scams about water for fuel, double your mileage with water etc. Since there is a sucker born every minute, they are probably getting rich anyway.

Here is a good site by an auto engineer who tests and compares most of the current additives and devices with good science like dynamometers to find any that work:
http://www.fuelsaving.info/hydrogen.htm
Last edited by SunWizard on Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby denson » Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:13 am

I understand that theese cheap little electrolisis devices are a scam. However, my question still remains. Would injecting hydrogen along with oxygen into the cylinders help to completely burn the VO? Does compressed hydrogen and oxygen burn at the same temp. as just regular air sucked through the air filter?
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Postby SunWizard » Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:19 am

The temp they burn at doesn't matter, because the amount of H2 and O2 you could get from any onboard electrolysis system is so small it would have no effect. Even if it is the worse Browns gas variety of scam.
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Postby denson » Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:37 am

Ok, theese machines don't work. Is there some type of gas that would help to burn VO more thouroughly to avoid coking of the piston and cylinder walls?
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Postby SunWizard » Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:41 am

Check out water injection. Some are using it with good results, and its simple and cheap. The basics are you spray tiny amounts of water into your intake post-turbo (only under high load conditions) and it helps clean out carbon deposits and improves power. See:
This thread on infopop
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Postby coachgeo » Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:32 am

There is also LP injection booste. (liquid propane). LP to diesel is like Nitrous is to Gas. Some with slow grunt diesels have used LP injection for passing booster, grade climbing at more managable highway speeds etc.

You inject about time you would H20 or H2O Alchohol blends.
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Postby denson » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:51 pm

Thank you both very much. That thread was very enlightening. I spent the rest of my day's free time reading it. I always thought water and engines didn't mix. I guess this is a kind of hydrogen injection also, just safer, easier, and more concentrated. One more question though. Are the oxygen and hydrogen atoms burnt in combustion, or just turned to steam and and exit via the exhust? I couln't figure that one out.
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Postby SunWizard » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:56 pm

Steam, which does the cleaning. Some add methanol to the water which gives a power boost.
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Postby denson » Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:57 pm

That's what I thought, thanks for the confirmation though. Cleaning is definetly a very valuable asset to have when burning VO, so thanx again for that link. There's alot of other valuable info on that site as well that I had not had a chance to read yet. I guess I was looking for some type of additive or modification that would stop coking altogether, add to the VO, inject through the air intake ect. No easy ways out though it seems, I guess I'll keep reading theese forums for now, thanx again.
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Postby John Galt » Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:16 pm

Coking is caused by unburned fuel deposits on cold engine start-up. Make sure the fuel and engine are warmed to at least 20°C before starting and the deposits will be significantly reduced or eliminated.

It's simple; if there is smoke from the exhaust then deposits are forming. No smoke, no deposits.
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Postby denson » Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:53 pm

Your right, that is pretty simple. That happens sometimes in the winter mornings and on hard acceleration on 100% diesel. So no matter what is in the tank coking is going to happen anyway, and water injection can steam clean the piston and cylinder walls. What about my injectors? any advise for them? Also I see your mix Mr. Galt. I,m experimenting with a 05 F-350 6.0 powerstroke, in southwest florida temps here are about 50f-80f on average [it is spring] I haven't put too much VO in the tank yet only about 10 gal. tank was already 1/4 full with ULSD (20 gal. tank) In your opinion, do u think I could get away with running a mix similar to yours. My truck is still completely stock, but i plan on getting a WI system, and adding heat in the next 6 months
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Postby ROLLGUY » Fri May 09, 2008 7:08 pm

Check out this thread about Hydrogen Generators:http://www.lovecraftbiofuels.com/index.php?option=com_joomlaboard&Itemid=40&func=view&id=5244&catid=9
There is discussion about Diesel engines with Hydro assist.
Last edited by ROLLGUY on Fri May 09, 2008 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ROLLGUY » Fri May 09, 2008 7:50 pm

[quote="SunWizard"]No. Its a scam.[/quote] No. Its a scam. ...[/quote]

I disagree. The science of Hydrogen assisted/boosted gasoline engines is real and not a scam. However, the home made systems that you see around the internet are not worth the time and effort, and could be viewed as a "Scam". I don't disagree that there are scamers out there using Hydrogen systems to get your money, because thy are out there. What I am saying is there are Hydrogen assist systems that actualy do work, and well. The only systems that are realy worth looking at are computer controlled, making adjustments to the timing, fuel injection etc. These systems are connected to the sensors(MAP,OXY, TPS,etc) BEFORE the cars ECU, and adjust the fuel and timing to take advantage of the faster burning HHO gas, therefore giving a more complete combustion, resulting in better fuel milage and less emissions. I am not an expert on this subject, but I have seen one of these systems in the car of a friend of mine, and it is impressive. The car (Saturn with over 100,000 miles) was driven about 4,000 miles (after an oil change) with the Hydrogen system installed, and the oil looked like it was just poured in the engine. The combustion process is so much more complete with the introduction of the HHO gas, that the oil is not contaminated. The milage has also incresed, but more tuning was needed to get to the optimum results. The system manufacturer guarentees a 50% increse in milage or your money back. However, they must be installed and tuned by a licensed installer. Tuning is the most important part, as that is where the milage gains are had.
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Postby David » Fri May 09, 2008 11:45 pm

Do you have a link to one of the computer controlled systems that do work such as the one you describe? I have never seen such a system advertised.

I would be interested to see how the Hydrogen is generated because my experiments wit this have lead me to believe doing it electrically on a vehicle leads to parasitic drag from the alternator which being rather inefficient, leads to higher consumption rather than lesser.

I also find the notion of being able to achieve 50% better economy to be well and truly in the "Too good to be true" category and would need a lot of convincing that was at all anything remotely creditable.
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