Recommend a pump for moving oil

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Recommend a pump for moving oil

Postby Jake Palmer » Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:54 am

Not IN the car, but I'm looking for a decent pump to move oil from tank to tank, and pump oil into the car. I've used "free" sump pumps I had kicking around, and other junk, but eventually they succumb to the thick oil.

I'd like to use a gear pump... is their an engine oil pump that will move oil fast enough to pump into the car? Better yet, is thee an oil pump that cen be mounted EXTERNALLY and not drip/leak?

Or should I just go out and buy a decent gear pump and drive it with a 1/3 hp motor?

And what about power steering pumps... I see some of you use those. Will any PS pump work, or just certain ones? Difficult to set up?
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Postby SunWizard » Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:18 am

I like the Fill-rite 1604, its been the best for pumping thick VO, better than my gear pumps, and higher flow, around 5 gpm. Any PS pump will work, but most of them are vane pumps where VO can gum up the vanes eventually making them quit working. A few PS pumps are gear pumps and will work better, 80's Acura all are gear pumps. Any of them will only do around 2-3 gpm. I haven't heard of any engine oil pumps that won't leak.

Another type of pump I use regularly is a roller pump, it works well. They are cheap and common for ag. use. Mine is a small one that I had laying around and does 2-3 gpm.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
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Postby hheynow » Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:27 am

Jake I own THIS 115v oil transfer pump. It's a work horse for sure. Pumps the thickest coldest oil no problem because that's what it's designed for.
FOR SALE: 1997 Ford F-350 7.3L PSD - Plant Drive kit
1984 Mercedes Euro 300D NA - Custom two tank
Running on used plant oil and biodiesel since May 2006
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Postby hheynow » Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:44 pm

Kudos to my pump. 8) I rearranged my vegoil shed and pumped out twelve 55 gal drums into two totes and 3 deheaded coated drums and that's about 650 gallons of oil. Pump never over heated and pumped flawlessly. Problem was that I just realized that only some of my steel drums are coated and storing wvo in raw steel doesn't sit well with me. So I'm exhausted from all the lifting and moving around but the great news is that all my oil is now in plastic and coated steel. I listed my 12 uncoated drums on Craig's List for free and they were gone in a day! So much more room...I'm thrilled.
FOR SALE: 1997 Ford F-350 7.3L PSD - Plant Drive kit
1984 Mercedes Euro 300D NA - Custom two tank
Running on used plant oil and biodiesel since May 2006
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Postby David » Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:21 am

^^^^ Nice Pump hheynow, I can only imagine what something like that would cost here!
It would be a bit slow for my liking, At 4 gal/min, your 650 gal would have taken almost 3 hours actual pumping time but you wouldn't be doing that every day so probably not the concern I imagine.

I am in the process of Using IBC's as well as I was getting a bit tired of my yard looking like a refinery with 12 drums around the place as well. The IBC's fitted nicely into an existing unused open shed and with a bit of shade cloth over the front, they are are nicely disguised from view yet still easily accessible.
Before putting them in I covered the entire floor and up the walls of the shed with a double layer of black builders plastic to act as a Bund in case of leaks but more so to satisfy any council inspectors that that I may encounter. They are doing routine inspections on pool fences and areas where dogs are kept here so it is likely I'll have someone nosing around sooner or later.

Jake,
I have a few large impeller centrifugal pumps and have found them to be very good with the oil. I have a friend that uses a pool pump and that apparently really pushes the oil through but they are no good for Bio as it seems to effect the plastic but that shouldn't be a problem for what you want. The small impeller QB types are really lacking on oil, especially if its a bit thick and you want the more traditional type centrifugal pump rather than the small turbo design as its called. The bigger the impeller, the more "Bite" it has on oil.

I have a modified Chev Small block oil pump and while they do drip occasionally from the shaft, it's not like you couldn't mount one in a plastic tray on a 240V motor and put a bit of paper towel under it to soak up the few drips. Mine drips about a drop or 2 a minute. hardly anything to worry about. With a 2800 Rpm motor, my pump does around 80L /min. As long as the motor has the grunt to keep the speed up on thicker oil, the flow rate won't drop.

I'm looking at coupling this pump to a weed wacker motor for oil collection as with the power of a 2-stroke engine, thickening oil and fats in winter wouldn't be a problem. I could mod the exhaust a bit which I have done before and makes the things significantly quieter.
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Until then, it's just more endless gloom and doom Veg folk law.
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Postby Burbarian » Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:22 am

Dumb question of the day:

Anybody ever tried using a disposable $2.50 drill pump? Those things are rubber impeller, positive displacement, self priming. Rated to 6.5gpm and can be powered by a $10 electric drill. The specs says it can be used to fill or drain small pools and spas. That's got to be what, 500 to 5k gallons?

If it survives for 1k gallons, it might be worth it as a cheap expendable item.
1987 GMC Suburban 6.2L V8 IDI
1985 Merc 300TD
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1971 Waldon 4100 loader
1981 IHI 30F excavator
1995 Changfa 195 w/ ST 10kw genset
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Postby David » Mon Apr 14, 2008 5:42 pm

There appear to be 2 different types of drill pump here.
One is a flat type that the vanes can be easily seen through the inlet/ outlet and are usually black in colour and quite stiff to turn. They are available for a couple of bux and aren't worth it. The vanes tend to shred as you use them sending plastic crap into whatever you are pumping but they redeem themselves buy soon failing, hopefully before they burn out your drill.

The second type is more cylindrical, generally an orange colour and are rippers although harder to come by. The have a good pumping volume and would be suitable for moving clean oil. A friend has one of these and it works better than a QB type pump on oil.


These are definately Crap and not worth any money:

Image

Image

I can't find any for sale on evil bay or pics of the good ones right now but suffice to say in my experience , anything that even looks like the one's above, are garbage too because they use the same cheap ass flawed internal design.
_____________________

I don't give a damn about what might or could happen until a significant group of people can tell me it HAS happened to them.
Until then, it's just more endless gloom and doom Veg folk law.
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Postby Burbarian » Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:15 pm

David,

I would tend to agree completely with your assessment of these cheap junk pumps. Still, I couldn't resist doing a simple experiment.

Rooted around the workshop till I found a 4 year old rubber impeller drill pump that was used once to drain bilge water out of a 20ft Marathon fiberglass boat. Gave up on that very quickly and used a proper high volume bilge pump. It was filthy and stuck. Putting it in a table vise and chucking a drill to the input shaft freed it up, but the resistance was incredible.

Still, it's there. What have I got to lose but a junk pump, an ancient $5 flea market 110VAC drill and some electricity?

It's been 5 hours now, and it's still pumping. I must admit to being quite flabbergasted. Getting it started was difficult, but then it eased up once the vo was flowing and it had blown out some unidentifiable internal crud. It seems to like pumping lukewarm vo much better than cold filthy water. I suspect the oil lubricates and lowers the rubber-to-plastic resistance considerably. It's doing more like 2gpm though, not 6.5gpm.

Have it running out on the back yard with an overload breaker on the drill motor extension cord. It sucks from a 1 gallon plastic jug of liquid wvo and returns it immediately to the jug through about 20ft of coiled black pvc hose. The jug has become quite warm to the touch. The drill and pump are hot to the touch. If they survive till morning, and I suspect now that the pump might possibly outlive the motor, I'll try running it with solid lard heated to 85C and see how long it will last. By then it should have pumped around a thousand gallons.

Unexpected non-catastrophic results are the best kind.
1987 GMC Suburban 6.2L V8 IDI
1985 Merc 300TD
1968 CAT D4D 3304 dozer
1971 Waldon 4100 loader
1981 IHI 30F excavator
1995 Changfa 195 w/ ST 10kw genset
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Postby David » Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:54 am

Hi Burb,

Good to hear the pump works and I agree that experiments that can only cost a few bucks if they go wrong are worth the learning value alone not to mention the potential benefit if they do work!

I think you are putting a big ask on your drill though. They really aren't designed to run for long periods like that and you could be taking up the things designed usable life in one go! :D

The pumps of this type I have played with tend to have pretty good flow rates.... before they self destruct anyways. The one my mate has flows like a beauty, maybe 50L/min or more but I have never been able to find one of the same type myself, more the pitty.

These Submersible pumps also work well if you have open drums you can get them into.

Image

These are pretty cheap and come in a variety of sizes and flowrates.

The other pumps I have had success with and are cheap are the marine Bilge pumps. Small ones that only cost about $15 here work pretty well although the flow rates the things advertise are a complete farce. Think about 1/5th of their stated rating and it doesn't vary much on oil or water.
I am using a couple of these to move oil out of barrels I don't want to put or would have difficulty putting a tap on. I just throw one in and leave it them there. I'm going to buy a few next time the boat place has them on special as they are cheap and reliable enough.


Let us know how your test goes and if everything survives!
_____________________

I don't give a damn about what might or could happen until a significant group of people can tell me it HAS happened to them.
Until then, it's just more endless gloom and doom Veg folk law.
David
 
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Postby Burbarian » Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:29 am

Will wonders never cease. The thing's still running in the morning.
The pump was a bit worse for wear though. It was still pumping, but there were little black specks and bits in the oil. Probably from bits of rubber broken off the impeller. The shaft also appears a bit wobbly.

Regarding the drill: they don't make them like they used to. Still runs like a champ. Looks like I was wrong. The beat up 1977 Black and Decker drill outlasted the throw-away pump!

You're probably right though, modern plastic hand drills would probably have died an untimely death in that same scenario.
1987 GMC Suburban 6.2L V8 IDI
1985 Merc 300TD
1968 CAT D4D 3304 dozer
1971 Waldon 4100 loader
1981 IHI 30F excavator
1995 Changfa 195 w/ ST 10kw genset
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Postby Jake Palmer » Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:10 am

I got a 1/3 hp submersible sump pump like the one shown above. It's working great.

I was doing a garage purge this weekend, and came across three 1/4 hp motors and three VW diesel oil pumps. I may try them to see how they do.

I used to have an oil pump from a porsche 911. It could move 15 gallons in a minute, but it took a LOT of power to spin it. I killed a drill trying to spin it.
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Postby David » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:20 pm

That's a great drill for sure Burb.
If it survived that, it should last forever!
The pump is pretty much as I have experienced myself. They disintegrate and leave plastic behind in what you were pumping. Mine have failed much sooner than yours though. If you can get the same brand again and they are cheap enough, they may be OK even if they are " disposable".
_____________________

I don't give a damn about what might or could happen until a significant group of people can tell me it HAS happened to them.
Until then, it's just more endless gloom and doom Veg folk law.
David
 
Posts: 333
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:12 am
Location: Sydney Australia

Postby mobetta » Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:25 pm

i have 2 cheep black drill pumps- they are $4 at menards, the house brand, and carry a 2 year warranty- as long as you have the receipt.

I have only worn one out, but do not use them often. I did get the pump and a drill for $15 when I was out of town and needed to move oil.

if you have open barrels, mount an engine oil pump down in the sump adn drive it w/ a long shaft.
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Postby jordanmills » Fri Apr 18, 2008 10:57 am

water ace Model RCPH, Part No. 27189D500

Image

http://www.waterace.com/specialty_8.html

Basically a 1" trash pump. Moves liquid oil absurdly fast.
2001 F-250 (7.3 L PSD)
2-tank custom/self-built SVO system
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Postby leftcoastjeff » Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:19 am

Drill pump to trash pump, cool,

OK. how about;
14 gal per. min.....
At 550 psi.....
Portable...
Just add 8 HP. gas motor,
Hit and run, 3 min. stop. will suck the shine off the bottem of the drum

Doh, I lost the hyperlink, Ill find it, @ $1295 if anyone is interested I'll search that other thread over there, somewhere, not sure which thread.:shock:

LCjeff
'87F-250 stock, minus that pesky water seporator/air inlet, bone stock for now.

Thomas Edison says it best, “Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work”.
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