insulation testers wanted

For discussing the modifications needed for diesel vehicles to run with 2 tank veggie oil conversions.

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Postby Jake Palmer » Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:19 am

the fuel line I'm using for my HiH is just over 1/2 outside diameter. The section I want to insulate has TWO lines, not three. I'll measure the lenght tonight. if I removed the zip ties, do you think the neoprene would be enough to hold them together without zip ties?

zoochy is right... neoprene covers for the hydraforce valves would be awesome
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Postby leftcoastjeff » Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:08 am

"A removable cover for hydraforce 3-way valves would be great."

Removable? Do you need access to the valve? wouldn't you want to insulate the bottom?
Stacking valves ?
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"I'll measure the lenght tonight. if I removed the zip ties, do you think the neoprene would be enough to hold them together without zip ties? "

holding them together for thermal transfer? or just for looks?
If the latter, Maybe a couple zips at the ends
'87F-250 stock, minus that pesky water seporator/air inlet, bone stock for now.

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Postby Jake Palmer » Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:42 am

I meant holding them together for heat transfer. I have 2 layers of bubblewrap insulation over them right now, but it's not very effective. I could actually have a very thick layer of neoprene over them... there's enough room.

Here are pictures of the two lines, so you can see what I mean:
going over the cowl for the radiator:
Image

And then passes around the airbox:
Image
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Postby leftcoastjeff » Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:10 am

The neoprene will hold the heat in, so no tyes inside, too hard to put tubing over? me thinks so. Maybe a couple tyes at the ends, maybe 2or3 to hold both in place?
Thin strips to wrap around instead?
Are the lines hot to the touch when engine heated?


Circumphance(sp) of both hoses and the length you desire and I'll get started.

LCjeff

PS. wouldn't metal lines transfer more heat?
'87F-250 stock, minus that pesky water seporator/air inlet, bone stock for now.

Thomas Edison says it best, “Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work”.
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Postby Jake Palmer » Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:23 am

leftcoastjeff wrote:The neoprene will hold the heat in, so no tyes inside, too hard to put tubing over? me thinks so. Maybe a couple tyes at the ends, maybe 2or3 to hold both in place?
Thin strips to wrap around instead?
Are the lines hot to the touch when engine heated?


Circumphance(sp) of both hoses and the length you desire and I'll get started.

LCjeff

PS. wouldn't metal lines transfer more heat?


I'll measure up tonight. I'd prefer a long tube (like a sock) to pull over the whole length.

I use rubber hose because it's easier to route and generally gives plenty of heat. In this case, I'm losing heat because of where it's placed. Not ideal for the conversion, but great for testing insulation.
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Postby Cumminscanuck » Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:52 pm

Sorry guys, been a little busy. I will measure up today and post the results. I think your idea for the valves will work if I make a "cage" to go over the Vegtherm to keep it from touching the neoprene. More later.
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Postby zoochy » Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:04 pm

leftcoastjeff wrote:"A removable cover for hydraforce 3-way valves would be great."

Removable? Do you need access to the valve? wouldn't you want to insulate the bottom?
Stacking valves ?


Not so much removeable but "easy to install and remove". It would be nice to just be able to slip it over the assembly w/o having to remove hoses. It could zip on as that would be easy to cut if one needed access to troubleshoot the electrics or something.
91 Toyota Hiace 3L engine w/ a 300W ½” heated fuel line, lift pump, additional 10um fuel filter, and a 2nd diesel tank for starting.
>160,000 km on:
88% canola WVO
11% old gasoline
.6% turpentine
.3% acetone
.1% eye of newt
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Postby leftcoastjeff » Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:22 pm

zoochy said;

Not so much removeable but "easy to install and remove". It would be nice to just be able to slip it over the assembly w/o having to remove hoses. It could zip on as that would be easy to cut if one needed access to troubleshoot the electrics or something.

Kinda like a little hat,like a battery term cover.
how about under, like a clam shell.

Cumminscanuck said;

if I make a "cage" to go over the Vegtherm to keep it from touching the neoprene.

Great idea, how hot does that get on the outside? they come with/without thermostat.
'87F-250 stock, minus that pesky water seporator/air inlet, bone stock for now.

Thomas Edison says it best, “Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work”.
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Postby Jake Palmer » Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:46 pm

Jeff, check with Craig Reece or Ed beggs about insulating the Vegtherm, there are some considerations there... I think Craig emailed you today with Ed's cc email address. Ed once explained that the vegtherm needs a temp differential in order to work properly and that insulating it can actually cause it to not perform as well. Can't remember the details but I'm sure he can explain.

Anyway, I just measured up the 2-hose HoH I'd like to test this on... it's ~9 feet long. the outside circumference of the 2 lines (they are 3/8 fuel lines) is 3 1/4 inches. So, you'd want something smaller than that so that it has to stretch a bit to hold them tight. Does that make sense? The thicker the better! What other info do you need?
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Postby leftcoastjeff » Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:05 pm

9' by 3 1/4 inches. got it. I'll send E-mail on the issue of veggitherm now.
Be right back

LCjeff
'87F-250 stock, minus that pesky water seporator/air inlet, bone stock for now.

Thomas Edison says it best, “Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work”.
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Postby leftcoastjeff » Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:21 pm

emailed....
No Ed's address listed.

Anyway, Tighter is not always better, my thought is that the installation could become a nightmare somewhere near the 7' mark, but I've been wrong before. 8)

6.5mm is most common(1/4") we also carry 1.5, 3, 4, 5mm
12mm is gold here, lots of hoods, and I think the wife would skin me alive, so no 12mm at this time sorry.

Black is always avalable.

I'll PM you for address.

LCjeff
'87F-250 stock, minus that pesky water seporator/air inlet, bone stock for now.

Thomas Edison says it best, “Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work”.
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Postby SunWizard » Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:09 pm

A vegtherm gets way too hot on the outside for neoprene.
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Postby leftcoastjeff » Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:26 pm

I kinda thought so, what about a cage(someone elses idea)
Holding heat may be a problem with resistor wire heating systems, we shall see in time.

LCjeff
'87F-250 stock, minus that pesky water seporator/air inlet, bone stock for now.

Thomas Edison says it best, “Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work”.
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HIH Insulation

Postby HoldOnTight » Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:51 am

LeftCoastJeff,

My HIH has an outside diameter of just over 1 in.

Like many, my 3/8 in fuel hose has a diameter of about 0.5 in.

I have a hydroforce solenoid valve (all aluminum and an undesirable heat sink to boot) which would be wonderful to insulate!

I also have 1/4 in O.D. hydraulic brake line feeding my fuel rails.

I think just about everyone is using a FPHE of some size or another. What would be really cool would be a 2 piece design where people could take the sandwich halves and encase the FPHE in insulation to improve it's efficiency. The most benefit of insulation can be gained where the heat loss is highest, which is where the oil is hottest. If a few molds for various FPHEs were made, people could locate the holes for the connections and trim the sandwich to suit their FPHE's number of plates.

Food for thought. The lengths of hoses can be tailored to each installation.

LeftCoastJeff, What do you think?

Richard AKA HoldOnTight
Late 99 Ford F-250, Designed and installed at home, 30 kMi on VO. WVO temp at solenoid valve is 185-195+F, winter-summer.
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Postby leftcoastjeff » Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:13 am

Diameter measurements are iffy at best, please use soft tape measure to measure the outer circumfernces.
Remember that it will be difficult to install a 12' tube if it's tight around the piping. give yourself a little wiggle room inside.
Trying to use Pi to determine the size to use, has been sketchy in the past.

Trying for the KISS methods at all times.

LCjeff

PS Plant drive is sending 3 way valve and 2 filter elements to design around, these guys rock, and they make great looking products.
'87F-250 stock, minus that pesky water seporator/air inlet, bone stock for now.

Thomas Edison says it best, “Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work”.
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