insulation testers wanted

For discussing the modifications needed for diesel vehicles to run with 2 tank veggie oil conversions.

Moderators: SunWizard, coachgeo

Infrared testing of insulation

Postby inframanii » Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:24 am

Hello,
I just joined the forum and ran across your thread. I would be interested in testing your product. I have a unique situation, 1). I run a business that owns an IR camera ($35k) and performs extensive IR testing. 2) I live about 5 miles from the coldest spot in the continental US (Embarrass, MN) 2/2/96 (-57F). 3). Getting ready to install system very soon. System is a two tank with 16, 30 plate FPHE's, HOH, Hydraforce valves, Vw heated filter, inline heater. I didn't have time to read the whole thread so maybe this is no longer of any use for you. Please let me know.
Have a safe and excellent day!!

IR Man :D
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Postby leftcoastjeff » Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:48 am

I think we can help each other in a big way!

"System is a two tank with 16, 30 plate FPHE's, HOH, Hydraforce valves, Vw heated filter, inline heater."

2 FPHE (kaori?)

HOH (length and circumfrance measurements)

Hydroforce valves (3?)

VW heated filter (that's one I havent dealt with yet, Pics and measurements, or someone just send me one if you have one that's not in use)

Inline heater (Vegtherm? if so I've been told that it needs to be exposed to the air for a reason that excapes me so far)

"I didn't have time to read the whole thread"
When you get the time,

You obviously take your testing seriosly, so I wont try to start to guide you.

Let me guess...Big 'ol truck? like mine?
'87F-250 stock, minus that pesky water seporator/air inlet, bone stock for now.

Thomas Edison says it best, “Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work”.
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Postby inframanii » Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:07 am

Hello,
This is the information I have at hand


2 FPHE (kaori?)[b]

Yes[/b]


HOH (length and circumfrance measurements)
The length has not been determined yet due to modifications not finalized but there will be (2) heater hoses 7/8" OD and (2) 3/8' OD aluminum fuel lines

Hydroforce valves (3?)

2 Hydraforce SV10-31M6T-12-ER valves

VW heated filter (that's one I havent dealt with yet, Pics and measurements, or someone just send me one if you have one that's not in use)

I don't have the measurements right now but I can get them in a couple of days. You can view the filter heater at Frybrid.com, it is the one with the heat exchanger between the filter and the filter head

Inline heater (Vegtherm? if so I've been told that it needs to be exposed to the air for a reason that excapes me so far)

Not a vegtherm, a resistance heater (experimental), I can supply mearsurements.

"I didn't have time to read the whole thread"
When you get the time,

I definitely will!!

I will probably add injector line heaters also.

You obviously take your testing seriosly, so I wont try to start to guide you.

Let me guess...Big 'ol truck? like mine?

A modified 97 Dodge Dakota with a 1980 300D motor and just very, very cold winters!!

If it is possible and not against any rules, I would like to get a phone# to discuss this further. The phone number would remain confidential.

Thanks,

IR Man
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Postby leftcoastjeff » Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:54 pm

Check out the measurements I have to be sure.
FPHE
K030*16
194mm long
80mm wide
46mm thick

K030*30
194mm
80mm
46mm
Respectivly.

I'd prefer to communicate pertinant info here for all to share, OK?
That way I can keep close records and refrance.

LCjeff
'87F-250 stock, minus that pesky water seporator/air inlet, bone stock for now.

Thomas Edison says it best, “Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work”.
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Postby leftcoastjeff » Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:58 pm

The new and improved hydroforce valve cover (PDHVC)

Logo down, closed


Image

And the same cover on the valve logo up, open

Image

Is this the one?
Perhaps do a conversion thread and show us why only 2 valves?
'87F-250 stock, minus that pesky water seporator/air inlet, bone stock for now.

Thomas Edison says it best, “Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work”.
leftcoastjeff
 
Posts: 196
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:35 pm
Location: Monterey, cal.

Postby leftcoastjeff » Tue Aug 05, 2008 1:20 pm

SunWizard wrote:A vegtherm gets way too hot on the outside for neoprene.


Resistance wire heating Insulation is something that hasent been an issue (why? I don't know) Don't those things have a temp regulators? or is it just a "on/off" situation? I do know enough to say "if you decrease the voltage, the temps go down" just personal experiance with a home built foam cutter (not neoprene)

HOH
Think wrap (like ducttaping) OR,
Tube (a hose to put all 4 inside) OR a combo of both?

LCjeff
'87F-250 stock, minus that pesky water seporator/air inlet, bone stock for now.

Thomas Edison says it best, “Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work”.
leftcoastjeff
 
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Postby inframanii » Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:27 pm

LCJeff,

The measurements for the 16 plate (KO30*16) appears to be correct. As for the K30*30 I do not know. My source decided to keep it, so I am going to be using 2-16 plates again. The valve in the picture appears to be the right one. The dimensions for the SV10-31 are on the Hydraforce web site. "Perhaps do a conversion thread and show us why only 2 valves? " The SV10-31 is a 3-way spool valve, so when de-energized the valve allows flow from port#2 (diesel) to port#1 (IP) while blocking flow to port#3 (wvo). When energized, the valve allows flow from port#3 (wvo) to port#1 (IP) while blocking port#2 (diesel). So, I will use one valve to select the fuel source and one valve to return the overflow fuel to the proper tank. Do you have anything that would work with a HOH?
Let me know what the next step for doing some testing is. I hope to start installing the wvo components by early next week time permitting. It will probably be easier to install the insulation during the intial install than later. It will also help with how the components will be mounted.

Have an excellent night!


IR Man
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Postby leftcoastjeff » Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:55 pm

IR Man,

HOH cover

Image

No looped fuel? just return to appropriate tank? Hmmm.

Before and after IR photos would be very cool

You should be able to install insulation with everything hooked up,
I try to design them that way.

LCjeff
'87F-250 stock, minus that pesky water seporator/air inlet, bone stock for now.

Thomas Edison says it best, “Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work”.
leftcoastjeff
 
Posts: 196
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:35 pm
Location: Monterey, cal.

Postby Ducato » Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:14 pm

LCjeff

I just received a tip on an another forum about a new kind of insulation.
I write from Sweden, and I have a Italian Fiat Ducato RV.
My problem is loss of heat, even though I have insulatet hoses and Heat exchanger. My heat loss can b as much as 20 degrees Celcius from HE to the pump. :-(
It would really be very interesting to test your insulation.
I have a heat exchanger , 19 cm long I belive, 7 cm wide. The height I have to measure, even the diameter and length of the hoses...

-If you are interested of course...

Best regards
steinar
Ducato
 
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Postby leftcoastjeff » Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:27 pm

Ducato

Welcome to vegburn,

What kind of insulation are you using now?

I'm using Neoprene laminated with nylon.

check out this thread, there's lots of good info.

Sweden is very cold? My guess.

LCjeff
'87F-250 stock, minus that pesky water seporator/air inlet, bone stock for now.

Thomas Edison says it best, “Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work”.
leftcoastjeff
 
Posts: 196
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:35 pm
Location: Monterey, cal.

Postby Ducato » Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:57 pm

LCjeff,
thanks a lot for quick reply!
I use some soft insulation tubes on the hoses, which I bought from the plummer. It is late here now, so I will measure tomorrow. I belive I measure outer diameter 11/16" (17mm) and 13/16" (21 mm) on the hoses.
On the He I use right now some closed cell insulation, but I can see it does not insulet well, specially not at the back side.

The picks of the heat excanger looks like the one I have, but i need to check that as well tomorow.
Yes it is very cold here in winter time, since we are north of Canada..:-)

We are about a hundred people in Sweden which has got the new hobby of driving on WVO, and I have a lot of knowledge to pass by the the novises, and I love to make other people happy. :D

Will send you measurement tomorrow.

You also are doing a good job here .

Tjodaloo!
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New application about to be tested...CF processor insulation

Postby HoldOnTight » Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:37 pm

Everyone,
I've been thinking about another application for your insulation. Many greasers are moving to a centrifuge for cleaning their oil. I'm doing that to eliminate filters, which clog too quickly and to get cleaner oil than possible with filters, and it dewater's in one step.
I've been running a CF without any insulation. However, colder weather will be approaching soon enough and I've been thinking to insulate the heating pipe, which is modeled after Sunwizard's. I'm talking about insulation to cover the 2 in black pipe and wrapping to cover the in and out lines, which are steel pipe in my case.
I have some leftover insulation wrapping material I didn't use on my F250. I was going to use it for the CF processor's hottest parts, the 2 in. pipe and maybe more. I believe I may need to go to a cone bottom tank, as I'm not having too much luck with dewatering with the CF, so until I do more testing with a drum, I'm not insulating that. I just thought you should know. I can post my findings soon. I try to do testing every weekend, at least one day. I'm going to collect oil temp. heating data without insulation this weekend. I'm also going to tilt the drum more to see if it helps with dewatering. So this weekend is baseline testing. Next weekend, I'll wrap the heater pipe. Currently, I'm only using 1 of the 2 heating elements because of the current draw limitation in my garage. That is another project. :) This is why I'm looking at insulating, rather than brute force heating with 2 heating elements.
Late 99 Ford F-250, Designed and installed at home, 30 kMi on VO. WVO temp at solenoid valve is 185-195+F, winter-summer.
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Postby leftcoastjeff » Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:54 pm

Great idea,

thanks,

Wrap on!!!!!

LCjeff
'87F-250 stock, minus that pesky water seporator/air inlet, bone stock for now.

Thomas Edison says it best, “Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work”.
leftcoastjeff
 
Posts: 196
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:35 pm
Location: Monterey, cal.

Postby biovindiesel » Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:14 pm

The VW heated filter is a stock Oil Cooler for the oil filter. The FRAM crankcase oil filters for them are only $4.95. They will grab poly scabs for sure. I's got one.

Jeff if you want to test your insulation on humid North Florida winters that have a low of ~25F at its worst let me know :D

Heres an idea, if this hasn't been posted in this long thread already.
Fuel line wraps. How expensive is neoprene and is it easy to work with sewing-wise? It seems practical to have something you can unwrap from your system if need be.
~Cv
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Measurements from Sweden

Postby Ducato » Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:29 pm

Ok, here are the the measurements:
hope you can use mm ?

The heat exchanger is at big one, 207 mm long, 77 mm wide and 55 mm high. The treaded connection is 20 mm outside diameter.

1 hose 18 mm x 600 mm
1 hose 18 mm x 480 mm
1 hose 18 mm x 350 mm
1 hose 24 mm x 600 mm
1 hose 14 mm x 900 mm

all outside diameter.

Today the insulation is 8 mm thick. A problem comes up, if I get vegoil on it, it almost dissolve by the oil....get slippery and has to be exchanged. Since it is closed by a glue on each half side to wrap it around the hose, this glue does not stick if contaminated w. oil.

Hows your insulation, is it possible to wash away oil?

cheers
Ducato
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