Ready to order stuff but I need some advice?!!!

For discussing the modifications needed for diesel vehicles to run with 2 tank veggie oil conversions.

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Ready to order stuff but I need some advice?!!!

Postby Radrick » Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:10 pm

Well I am finally ready to start ordering and then building my wvo system. I have several questions, I will also outline the system as I am planning to build it so that everyone can give me any feedback on possible issues or just to voice opinions.
First off I am planning on using a single valve system with two lift pumps both with check valves, similar to the system recently installed on vegmiesters truck.
Sun I read your piece on TIH ver. HOH and the heat transfer differences. Since I am a mechanical designer and do hydronic heating design I am very familiar with the information you stated in that thread. I didn't have any real GPM numbers for the coolant or fuel so I didn't bother doing a calc as without this info the only thing that can be accomplished is a comparison between to systems. I never thought of doing this on the HOH ver TIH so nice thinking. This was a very clear cut example of the differences. I have several areas that I can't really come up with data for without the GPM numbers. I will list them below to see what you think.
1. will the cheap $19 heat exchanger be adequate to heat my diesel up to 100F on a -20F day? keep in mind that the factory fuel filter is below and behind the intake in the lifter valley.
2. With 6' of TIH between my lift pump and heated filter will a 10 plate FPHE be sufficient for my wvo?
3. I have been working on possible ways to make a filter wrap that utilizes metal on filter heat transfer. I have been looking at a two copper plates soldered together in a U shape wrapped around the filter and clamped. Has anyone come up with a metal on filter wrap?
I am planning on having three coolant circuits in my system; the first one would run threw the FPHE then thew the filter wrap and TIH down to my lift pump mounted on the frame about mid cab, The second circuit would run threw the diesel heat exchanger and TIH if needed down to the diesel lift pump mounted on the frame rail about mid cab, the third circuit would run threw a insulated enclosure around my wvo lift pump then TIH back to the wvo tank and threw the heated pickup. this circuit would be primarily for cold weather and would be controlled by a long stem ball valve that can be adjusted at the floor boards just ahead of the drivers seat.
My primary concerns are weather the cheaper ehat exchanger will handle the diesel since I would rather not spend the money or dedicate the exter space for a FPHE for both. I believe that with the amount of TIH that I will have a very small FPHE will be more than adequate for the wvo. I am also concerned about how much loss i will experience on the two small unheated sections of hose one 6" hose from the FPHE to the IP and the other 18" hose form the filter to the FPHE.
Again I am looking for any and all feedback that I can get and I am planning on starting to order components early next week. Thanks
1995 Chevy K1500 6.5 TD not on WVO yet but soon.
Radrick
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Rochester, MN

Re: Ready to order stuff but I need some advice?!!!

Postby SunWizard » Wed Apr 30, 2008 4:25 pm

Radrick wrote: 1. will the cheap $19 heat exchanger be adequate to heat my diesel up to 100F on a -20F day? keep in mind that the factory fuel filter is below and behind the intake in the lifter valley.

Which heat exchanger is that? Normally with that setup they use the same FPHE to heat the diesel during warmup and VO. A diagram would be best, are you doing something like this?
Image
2. With 6' of TIH between my lift pump and heated filter will a 10 plate FPHE be sufficient for my wvo?

Depends on your climate, type of VO, and the rest of your plumbing.
3. I have been working on possible ways to make a filter wrap that utilizes metal on filter heat transfer. I have been looking at a two copper plates soldered together in a U shape wrapped around the filter and clamped. Has anyone come up with a metal on filter wrap?

Yes greasecar uses a copper coil wrapped around the filter, you can see many pics of them on their site and on infopop. A rubber wrap has been fine on mine, probably because its right after an 8' section of TiH which heats the VO to very hot.
I am planning on having three coolant circuits in my system; the first one would run threw the FPHE then thew the filter wrap and TIH down to my lift pump mounted on the frame about mid cab, The second circuit would run threw the diesel heat exchanger and TIH if needed down to the diesel lift pump mounted on the frame rail about mid cab, the third circuit would run threw a insulated enclosure around my wvo lift pump then TIH back to the wvo tank and threw the heated pickup. this circuit would be primarily for cold weather and would be controlled by a long stem ball valve that can be adjusted at the floor boards just ahead of the drivers seat.
My primary concerns are weather the cheaper ehat exchanger will handle the diesel since I would rather not spend the money or dedicate the exter space for a FPHE for both. I believe that with the amount of TIH that I will have a very small FPHE will be more than adequate for the wvo. I am also concerned about how much loss i will experience on the two small unheated sections of hose one 6" hose from the FPHE to the IP and the other 18" hose form the filter to the FPHE.
Again I am looking for any and all feedback that I can get and I am planning on starting to order components early next week. Thanks

Short sections of rubber hose will not be a problem with heat loss. I have about 4 sections 3' long of uninsulated hose and its been fine down to -10F.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
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Re: Ready to order stuff but I need some advice?!!!

Postby Radrick » Thu May 01, 2008 7:22 am

SunWizard wrote: Which heat exchanger is that?


Harrison Heat Exchanger

SunWizard wrote: Normally with that setup they use the same FPHE to heat the diesel during warmup and VO. A diagram would be best, are you doing something like this?


I would like to use seperate heat exchangers to help keep the purge as short as possible. I am concerned about the FPHE not clearing out completely and with my IP I want to make sure I don't have any wvo in it after shutdown.
In searching and reading posts about IP failures in the 6.5 TD I believe that most failures are related to the wvo being two thick and not lubing certain areas of the pump. with this in mind I believe that, although it is very important to preheat the pump with the diesel, 100f is warm enough to accomplish this and avoid damaging the IP. Most of the cases that I have read about were during switch over on very cold days without any diesel preheat. Many of them were and still are be atributed to the temp swing or heat shock.
Yes that is the layout I am planning and the two heat exchangers would be just downstream of each filter.

SunWizard wrote: Depends on your climate, type of VO, and the rest of your plumbing.


I am in MN but just working off of the btu and sq ft numbers in your other thread, if 8' f TIH would work without a FPHE the smallest FPHE has more square foot of surface area then that. I may have to do some testing to come up with GPM numbers so that I can calc it out.
1995 Chevy K1500 6.5 TD not on WVO yet but soon.
Radrick
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Rochester, MN

Postby SunWizard » Thu May 01, 2008 8:34 am

Fuel is about 8gpm max. = 75mph/10mpg.
Coolant depends on which water pump you have, and how much you send the heater core. I think they are around 2 gpm on the GM.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1719
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:53 pm
Location: N. Colorado

Postby Radrick » Thu May 01, 2008 8:43 am

SunWizard wrote:Fuel is about 8gpm max. = 75mph/10mpg.
Coolant depends on which water pump you have, and how much you send the heater core. I think they are around 2 gpm on the GM.


On the diesel heat exchanger I will have the return going to the tank so I will need to heat that 2 gpm pluss the flow of the return.
1995 Chevy K1500 6.5 TD not on WVO yet but soon.
Radrick
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Rochester, MN

Postby SunWizard » Thu May 01, 2008 9:22 am

Fuel is 8gpm and at that load there won't be much return, depending on your lift pump size.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1719
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:53 pm
Location: N. Colorado


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