Vegetable Oil SVO WVO waste cooking oil as biofuel

[coachgeo]

...I have heard that diesel has oil in it? Is this true?...

ahhh..... uhmmm..... gosh.... not really wanting to be the one that gets egg on your face but... someones going to

The term "Diesel" could be considered a nick name for "Diesel Oil". It is an oil, all oil, and nothing but an oil so help me god (not counting the additives)

[John Galt]

Does ice have water in it?

[rtarh2o]

I guess now that I think about it that it was a dumb question, it is processed from crude oil, but my point is that all oil thickens with temperature doesn't it? So what is the difference between diesel "oil" and vegetable oil as far as spray patterns when cold at the same viscosity? And in an IDI engine is it even that important? I know this opens up all kinds of discussions but I am just trying to figure out what the problems are with properly thinned WVO (and I know this has many variables too)
Rusty

[coachgeo]

diesel thickens in cold too. It will even gell. But since it starts thinner.. it takes more cold than say WVO.

see

http://www.arctic-fox.com/

[John Galt]

diesel thickens in cold too. It will even gell.

That's a rather generalized statement. Up here the temperatures get to -40 and there is no real problem with pump diesel gelling. That's like saying paper towels fall apart when wet. Obviously some do and some don't. You can't make accurate generalized statements about diesel fuel; it's not a uniformly standardized product like kerosene.

[WD8CDH]

Of course, Diesel fuel is a standardized product, even more so than Kerosene. Of course, any standard has a range of specs.

Diesel has far more specs to meet (ASTM D975) than Kerosene (ASTM D 3699).

[coachgeo]

diesel thickens in cold too. It will even gell.

That's a rather generalized statement. ....

Correct, generalized statement for the generalized theme of this conversation.

The range of temp that diesel will begin to thicken and eventually gell is significantly colder than that of WVO, but they both do it.

... in an IDI engine is it even that important? I know this opens up all kinds of discussions but I am just trying to figure out what the problems are with properly thinned WVO (and I know this has many variables too)
Rusty

Properly thinned is the thing. What is that? its an arguable point. Then lets say you reach this "proper" point. Ok.... now how well does this fuel combust? Does it combust differently? How different than diesel itself etc.

WVO does combust a little different. Timing the engine to the fuel, no different than a race care engine maker does when he sets the timing to race fuels. This is key to long term success. OR you keep tweaking away at the fuel with temps and blends etc. till it mimicks the exact burn patterns of diesel then you do not have to mess with engine timing.

The tweaking of the WVO to be like diesel is the mode most have attacked it IMHO. Could be that way due to not having access to ways to measure quality of combustion thus no way of knowing what timing setting allows for best combustion and what doesn't. There is other factors but hopefully all this is answering some of your questions.

[coachgeo]

By the way.... we are getting a bit off topic of this thread.

Sounds like you need to start a new thread.

[John Galt]

The viscosity of pump diesel in Miami can be different from the pump diesel in Fairbanks. At some times of the year this difference can be significant. Making blanket statements about 'diesel' parameters without specifying grade, region and time of year can be misleading, especially to those who believe that diesel is the same everywhere.

[coachgeo]

... especially to those who believe that diesel is the same everywhere.

now that is good point of learning

[WD8CDH]

In the ASTM standard, the cloud point spec is "Depends on
location". The standard does specify the viscosity range at 40C for all locations but does not specify cold temperature limits, but no matter where you get diesel fuel, if you get it cold enough, it will thicken and gel.

VO has a much wider variation in viscosity, not just because of the source but also the processing of waste oil. If you remove the fat, you lower the viscosity and cloud point so less thinner is needed. But by removing the fat, you also lower the cetane so low cetane thinners negatively effect the combustion more.

[WD8CDH]

Hello SunWizard, thanks for saving me some money, because I did not notice the change in units. I thought they were for testing thinner fluids. As for using the visgage for testing the viscosity of solvents, you have already demonstrated for us, that the visgage will not work with gasoline, etc. So, vis cups will most likely be the method I use for testing stale gas and mis-fuel etc.

Even better than a vis cup is to run the fluid thru a restrictive tube. A restrictive tube is more sensitive to viscosity changes but a hole in a cup type meter is more effected by density than it is by viscosity, especially with thinner fluids.

I use a viscosity meter similar to the "World Famous Dr Pepper Viscosimeter (Pat Pend)" and find it very consistant and repeatable.

This is also closer to the actual method used to measure SSU.

[SunWizard]

I found a good chart showing Diesel viscosity versus temp:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/visco ... _1143.html