Viscosity testing of WVO & blends

Single Tank WVO systems and blending SVO WVO to thin it.

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Viscosity testing of WVO & blends

Postby SunWizard » Fri May 09, 2008 1:12 pm

I got a visgage pocket oil comparator from ebay for $20:
Image

It works very simply and accurately.
Operating instructions:http://www.visgage.com/page_2.htm

Today I ran some tests for viscosity, each test run 3x with exactly consistent results, here are the results in SSU at 60F:
winter Diesel : 35
New canola: 125
V80/D20: 85

One interesting thing is that I thought that the effect would be a linear reduction of viscosity, but its not, adding only 20% Diesel reduced the viscosity by almost 50% of the difference between Diesel and canola.

These results show that my blending of V80 gets the viscosity much lower at 60F (85 SSU=16cSt) than V100 heated to 160F (=28cSt) and lower than D2 at 32F (=23cSt). This explains why its working so well for me in my old Mercedes for the last 15k miles. I may even try less Diesel% now that I see these results.
See this graph for the source of the heated WVO and chilled Diesel numbers:
http://www.frybrid.com/svo.htm
Here are more charts that show lower vis. numbers for heated WVO, 15cSt at 160F:
http://www.frybrid.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3596
I found a good chart showing Diesel viscosity versus temp:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/visco ... _1143.html

More viscosity numbers to come...
Last edited by SunWizard on Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:32 pm, edited 4 times in total.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Postby 240Volvo » Fri May 09, 2008 1:24 pm

Kero and Turp results would be very interesting, as they also increase cetane values.
1984 Volvo 240 diesel with a single tank Elsbett conversion: electric fuel filter heater, FPHE, glow plugs, and injectors. Also injector line heaters and block heater, running 20%kero/80%WVO winter blend.
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Postby SunWizard » Fri May 09, 2008 2:02 pm

Kerosene = 35 SSU, the same as my winter Diesel.
Turpentine = 1425 SSU, very thick, but you only add a tiny amount. (must be wrong on the chart, the turp I have seen is not that thick.)

Here is a viscosity chart for many fluids:
http://www.csgnetwork.com/sgvisc.html

Kerosene has close to or slightly less cetane than Diesel.
Last edited by SunWizard on Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Postby 240Volvo » Fri May 09, 2008 2:16 pm

I understand that winter D2 is mostly Kero, so that isn't surprising. I should have been more clear in my previous post. I meant that both Kero and Turp raise the cetane of VO, and did not intend the comparison with D2. I thought that Turp thinned VO, so the result that you post for it is confusing to me.

Thanks as always for the great info!
1984 Volvo 240 diesel with a single tank Elsbett conversion: electric fuel filter heater, FPHE, glow plugs, and injectors. Also injector line heaters and block heater, running 20%kero/80%WVO winter blend.
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Postby SunWizard » Fri May 09, 2008 2:47 pm

More tests at 60F:
Used, filtered, dewatered canola VO: 150 SSU.
New Rotella 15w-40 motor oil: 260 SSU.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Postby John Galt » Fri May 09, 2008 6:47 pm

Kerosene = 35 SSU, the same as my winter D2.


Winter diesel is usually #1 diesel which is the same as kerosene plus motor fuel lubricity additives. JetA is the same kerosene base stock with additives specifically for turbine aircraft engines. Stove oil is kerosene with no additives.
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Re: Viscosity testing of VO & blends

Postby tubular031 » Sat May 10, 2008 10:42 am

SunWizard wrote:One interesting thing is that I thought that the effect would be a linear reduction of viscosity, but its not, adding only 20% D2 reduced the viscosity by almost 50% of the difference between D2 and canola.

These results show that my blending of V80 gets the viscosity much lower at 60F (85 SSU=16cSt) than V100 heated to 160F (=28cSt) and lower than D2 at 32F (=23cSt). This explains why its working so well for me in my old Mercedes for the last 15k miles. I may even try less D2% now that I see these results.
See this graph for the source of the heated VO and chilled D2 numbers:
http://www.frybrid.com/svo.htm

More viscosity numbers to come...


maybe i am reading this wrong... v80d20 is thinner then v100 at 160 deg?

so what is the big deal about mixing? sounds like when its 80 deg out I sould be able to run v80d20 in my truck with no issues at all? or does heating the VO make it burn better or at a lower temp?
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Re: Viscosity testing of VO & blends

Postby SunWizard » Sat May 10, 2008 10:53 am

tubular031 wrote:maybe i am reading this wrong... v80d20 is thinner then v100 at 160 deg?
You read it right. That is with my WVO, which is high oleic canola which is the best WVO you can get, there are far worse ones for viscosity.
so what is the big deal about mixing? sounds like when its 80 deg out I sould be able to run v80d20 in my truck with no issues at all? or does heating the WVO make it burn better or at a lower temp?

Viscosity isn't the only issue. Other issues with mixing are the cold startup issues of WWVO getting past the rings causing lube oil poly, and incomplete combustion at startup causing coking or deposits. Which are worse on DI engines or old worn engines. A benefit of 2 tank rigs is that you are starting and stopping on Diesel which is better at startup.

Heating the WVO is needed with blends if you want to use it below the cloud point of the WVO, which is around 30F for most WVO. Or else you clog your filter.

My viscosity figures were at 60F, below that temp the viscosity goes up quickly, see the chart I linked.
Last edited by SunWizard on Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Postby tubular031 » Sat May 10, 2008 11:06 am

I thought the cold VO startup was an issue because the oil is too thick and would not burn right. well if mixing 20 to 40% diesel or so, wouldnt that make the VO thin enough to burn correctly?

or is it not good since the engine is cold and that is the part that matters? even tho the VO is thin enough?
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Postby SunWizard » Sat May 10, 2008 11:12 am

Its mainly that the engine is cold, so the rings don't seal as well, and that even properly atomized (thin viscosity) fuel can condense on the cold cylinder walls. Thats why 12volt electric heat doesn't help those issues at all, and I didn't use it on my 300D. A block heater can help with those issues.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
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Postby tubular031 » Sat May 10, 2008 11:17 am

makes sense.

so how does diesel not excape past the rings into the crank case when its cold? or does it and since its not VO there is nothing to worry about?

This stuff is very interesting to me! i really want to run the 2 tank system but can not justify spending the $3300 right now for the kit. VO is pretty hard to come by in my area. they want you to have licenses and all. got 150 gal of VO sitting in the back yard waiting to be used, but not at the cost of the motor in my PSD....
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Postby SunWizard » Sat May 10, 2008 11:22 am

tubular031 wrote:so how does diesel not excape past the rings into the crank case when its cold? or does it and since its not VO there is nothing to worry about?

D2 does get past the rings. But it doesn't cause lube oil poly, it thins the oil and it still functions.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
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Postby David » Sat May 10, 2008 7:34 pm

tubular031 wrote:This stuff is very interesting to me! i really want to run the 2 tank system but can not justify spending the $3300 right now for the kit.


Tubular,

I'm sure if you searched the various forums you would be able to find others who have done their own successful modifications on vehicles like yours for far less than what the kit you are talking about costs.
I am always amazed by the price of these kits which are nothing more than a collection of parts you can buy much cheaper if you invest a little of your time. There is so much info on forums these days along with help and advise from those that have done their own mods, You really don't need to bother with a kit.

From what I have read about and from some kit suppliers, There is no way i'd be game to go near some of them!
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Postby tubular031 » Sat May 10, 2008 7:40 pm

David wrote:
tubular031 wrote:This stuff is very interesting to me! i really want to run the 2 tank system but can not justify spending the $3300 right now for the kit.


Tubular,

I'm sure if you searched the various forums you would be able to find others who have done their own successful modifications on vehicles like yours for far less than what the kit you are talking about costs.
I am always amazed by the price of these kits which are nothing more than a collection of parts you can buy much cheaper if you invest a little of your time. There is so much info on forums these days along with help and advise from those that have done their own mods, You really don't need to bother with a kit.

From what I have read about and from some kit suppliers, There is no way i'd be game to go near some of them!


yea building my own has crossed my mind a few times, but knowing me, i would screw something up and then need to spend a ton to rebuild my motor. I am still in the planning stages at the moment. The thought of BioD keeps crossing my mind since the chick like the jettas and i can get one in diesel :) best of both worlds!
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Postby SunWizard » Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:38 pm

Today I learned a drawback of the visgage, I tried to check the vicosity of my oil change on my 300D after 6k miles. It was so black I couldn't see the little ball rolling inside the tube.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
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