Is SVO safer than biodiesel and other options?

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Is SVO safer than biodiesel and other options?

Postby VegMeister » Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:13 pm

Specifically in the event of an accident? (I have never gotten in an accident so this is of course entirely theoretical, we of course will not think about things if they're not going to happen to us! ;) )
My observation is that the flash point:
diesel = >62°C (143°F)
SVO = >315°C (620°F)
and the fire point:
diesel = 210°C (410°F)
SVO = >371°C (700°F)
AIT (auto ignition temperature):
diesel = 210°C (410°F)
SVO = 365°C (690°F)

Note: feel free to correct me on any of these figures, and I'll provide citations from the online MSDS that I copied these from if we need to see where I'm getting these numbers from.

My take (that I've been touting) is that as long as the tank is not intentionally heated, then SVO is the safest bet in a highway catastrophe. You have a big tank of fuel with a VERY high flash point, very little chance of actually catching fire. The amount of fuel that is heated up very hot is only in the heat exchanger, filter, and hoses. Even this fuel is nowhere near its flash point. In fact there's nothing in any vehicle that you might crash into that is hot enough to make SVO to flash on contact (basically what I would consider the fire point). Very comforting to think of.

*EDIT* I edited the typo on flash point temps. Sorry for thinking I couldn't edit: I wasn't logged in.
Last edited by VegMeister on Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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1993 GMC Sierra K2500 6.5L + homebuilt veg kit, OEM glowplug failure (update: rebuilt with a 6.2 block, working fine)
1988 Ford 6.9L OEM dual tank, 90+% veg oil blend.
1989 Ford 7.3L, 80+% veg oil blend.
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Postby SunWizard » Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:45 pm

Yes SVO is safer than any other fuel because of its higher flash point.
But you got your VO flash point and fire point figures wrong:
RUG= -40F (-40C)
Diesel = 143F (62C)
SVO = 620F (327C)

If you blend your SVO with RUG or Diesel you get close to the fire hazard of the lower flash point fuel.

Fire point is where its hot enough to maintain a fire after it is ignited. If there is no spark or flame, simply contact with a hot surface, then it needs to get to the AIT to ignite. Sometimes your exhaust manifold can get above AIT of SVO of 690F. But its unlikely to get a large amount of SVO on the manifold in a crash while its still that hot without cooling it below that temp.

But all of us 2 tankers still have a tank of Diesel that can flash and AIT below the temp of SVO, so not much safer than a stock Diesel vehicle, which are all safer than a gas vehicle from this aspect.
Last edited by SunWizard on Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
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Postby VegMeister » Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:33 am

Yeah thanks for the clarifications, I thought that 600F was a rounded figure. And you're right about AIT. But I think that us 2 tankers might be a lot safer if the d2 tank is a small one. For me, I still have 35 gal of d2 but a lot of guys are using their main tanks for veg and putting a 5gal tank (this is for a VW or a 300TD). In which case they've reduced the amount of d2 on the vehicle, which means not much of the fluid on the car has an AIT of higher than average temp of the exhaust manifold (unless you're running some CRAZY horsies through the engine, not likely on a little car).

I'm thinking for someone trying to sell their spouse on a "veggie car" for family excursions, this might be another factor.
centralvalleybiodiesel CF
1993 GMC Sierra K2500 6.5L + homebuilt veg kit, OEM glowplug failure (update: rebuilt with a 6.2 block, working fine)
1988 Ford 6.9L OEM dual tank, 90+% veg oil blend.
1989 Ford 7.3L, 80+% veg oil blend.
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Postby David » Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:11 am

Both Bio and veg are so much safer than the alternatives, it's pretty much a moot point.
Of course if you have a collision with another vehicle, the odds on bet is it will be running petrol which could ignite very easy and burn you to a crisp if you couldn't get out of your nice, safe Veg fueled jalopy.

Can't see any point at all in worrying about having a small Dino tank and the inconvinence it would cause when most everyone else is carrying round 100L of petrol.
Of course here at least, we also have a growing number of vehicles fueled with LPG that will ignite at the merest hint of a spark.....

Forget about what your running, it's what the other guy is carrying that's most likely to get ya!
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Postby SunWizard » Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:16 am

VegMeister wrote:I thought that 600F was a rounded figure.

You said 600C (315F) is the error in flash point and 700C fire point, C and F attached to wrong #s.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
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Postby hheynow » Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:33 pm

Granted VO is the safest with regards to high AIT and FP but there is a scenario where VO is the most dangerous...a VO spill on the roadway. It won't evaporate due to the lack of volatility and is a hazard for any car trying to maneuver through it.
FOR SALE: 1997 Ford F-350 7.3L PSD - Plant Drive kit
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Postby VegMeister » Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:52 pm

Yes, that depends on the road surface. Gravel (what I'm used to) and blacktop are both very porous. I don't know but I think that veg oil would just soak through.
centralvalleybiodiesel CF
1993 GMC Sierra K2500 6.5L + homebuilt veg kit, OEM glowplug failure (update: rebuilt with a 6.2 block, working fine)
1988 Ford 6.9L OEM dual tank, 90+% veg oil blend.
1989 Ford 7.3L, 80+% veg oil blend.
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Location: Pembine, WI

Postby HoldOnTight » Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:13 pm

Shouldn't we be comparing VO to the mainstream fuels, Gas and Diesel?
VO is much safer across the board than either gas or diesel and is safer than gas.
Late 99 Ford F-250, Designed and installed at home, 30 kMi on VO. WVO temp at solenoid valve is 185-195+F, winter-summer.
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Postby VegMeister » Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:46 am

HoldOnTight, go re-read the thread. That's what we're doing :) RUG = regular unleaded gas, D2 - #2 diesel.
centralvalleybiodiesel CF
1993 GMC Sierra K2500 6.5L + homebuilt veg kit, OEM glowplug failure (update: rebuilt with a 6.2 block, working fine)
1988 Ford 6.9L OEM dual tank, 90+% veg oil blend.
1989 Ford 7.3L, 80+% veg oil blend.
VegMeister
 
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Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:12 am
Location: Pembine, WI

Postby biovindiesel » Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:22 pm

Here is one concern for safety that I hope most of us take into account.

Spontaneous Combustion
~Cv
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