Dealing with humidity and condensation

Collecting, filtering and dewatering of WVO SVO vegetable oil. For Biodiesel producers too.

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Dealing with humidity and condensation

Postby denson » Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:16 pm

Does anyone have any sugestions in regards to dealing with humidity, and condesation during warm wet weather?
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Postby WD8CDH » Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:18 am

All of my storage is closed top and I use dissicant filled vents.
Ron Schroeder
WD8CDH
'85 MB 300DT 2 Tank
Since '81 former WVO conversions:
'83 240D
'80 Audi 4000D
'83 Isuzu Pup
'86 Golf
'76 Honda Civic with Kubota engine
Prior to the cars, several generators
Kubota Tractor
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Location: NY

Dessicant Breather Performance

Postby HoldOnTight » Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:45 am

How well does the dessicant breather work? What kind of setup do you have? Pics please?

Thanks,
HoldOnTight
Late 99 Ford F-250, Designed and installed at home, 30 kMi on VO. WVO temp at solenoid valve is 185-195+F, winter-summer.
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Postby WD8CDH » Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:18 pm

It's just a simple 2" to 4" plumbing reducer, a 6" piece of PVC pipe and a 4" PVC cap with a few 1/4" holes drilled in it. It's just sliped togeather, no glue. A bag of dissicant is stuffed in it. I screwed a 2" male thread to slip adapter in the barrel fitting and the breather slips into the adapter.
Ron Schroeder
WD8CDH
'85 MB 300DT 2 Tank
Since '81 former WVO conversions:
'83 240D
'80 Audi 4000D
'83 Isuzu Pup
'86 Golf
'76 Honda Civic with Kubota engine
Prior to the cars, several generators
Kubota Tractor
WD8CDH
 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 11:44 am
Location: NY

Postby HoldOnTight » Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:02 pm

Thanks WD...

About the effectiveness:

I was able to get a free sample of a Des-Case dessicant breather. I have a 110 gal Aluminum tank that was prone to picking up moisture due to air exchange caused by the daily heat and cool cycle in the back of my pickup truck (with a cap). It was the primary cause of free-water blocking filters to be replaced, rather than dirt in the oil, even though my filter was 2 micron.

So, I got this Des-Case Extreme which is one of the largest tank dessicant filters made by Des-Case. It is new this year and is twice the size/capacity as last year's largest model. It has a 2 micron dirt filter along with something like 22 oz of blue color changing dessicant, and an oval vertical window on each side to monitor the dessicant condition. The tank breather has a pressure relief valve that has a 0.2 psi pressure or vacuum cracking pressure.

My aluminum tank has a 2" port on each side on top and there are 3 baffles inside the tank. Before putting on the Xtreme on one port, both ports had a fill cap with a 3 psi cracking pressure. I used to get condensation on the filler cap daily consisting of 3-4 drops of water (driver's side port) and now, after the rainy spring, I find maybe only 1 drop of condensation in about 1 day in 7. So yes, it helped significantly, and so far, the filter is lasting 8500 mi and I can probably get 10,000 out of it.

I think the Des-Case Xtreme will last a couple years on the truck's wvo tank. When it is used up, I'll recharge it by pumping dry winter air from my woodburning stove through it using a fish tank pump, probably running for a few days.

I will also make a breather, like described above by WD for my clean oil tote. Thanks again WD.
Late 99 Ford F-250, Designed and installed at home, 30 kMi on VO. WVO temp at solenoid valve is 185-195+F, winter-summer.
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Postby HoldOnTight » Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:04 pm

Oh, one more thing. I now have over 30Kmi on my truck and not 9kmi as noted in my old signature.
Late 99 Ford F-250, Designed and installed at home, 30 kMi on VO. WVO temp at solenoid valve is 185-195+F, winter-summer.
HoldOnTight
 
Posts: 137
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Location: Dayton OH

My Desiccant Breather - Update!

Postby HoldOnTight » Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:59 pm

Ron, you didn't say how long that desiccant breather is working for you. Would love to hear how it is working. Have you checked to see if it needs recharging?


I have an update. After an extremely wet and humid spring AND most of the summer, the DesCase Extreme has soaked up all the moisture it can. It worked beautifully!!! The dessicant turned blue to pink rather quickly once I got below a half tank of veg oil, about 2 weeks ago. I now have a 1/3 tank, so I need to get moving with this!

My breather needs recharging. I'm thinking about hooking up a hairdryer on one end and (perhaps a loosely coupled vacuum cleaner to suck the hot/warm air through it) dry it out and recharge it. I understand the desiccant needs to remain at 200F for a few hours to recharge, so i don't know if it will happen more quickly with a blow dryer. I'll have to measure the temp coming out of one.

I may just wait until later to recharge it and go to Plan B

I don't know where to get a bag of desiccant like Ron has, and I need a few of these anyway (for my truck tank, Totes, and charged spares) so I may just build this (Plan B), quick:

> a 4 in. diameter PVC pipe 6-8" long
> a 2" threaded plug, with a 1/4" hole drilled in the center, for air intake
> 2 of the 4" to 2" reducers, like Ron's using
> 2 of the 2" slip to 2" threaded adapter, AND
> Stainless Mesh Disc Corrosion-Resistant 304 SS Wire Cloth Disc 100 X 100 Mesh, 4" Diameter, .0045" Wire Diameter, 4 in. disk diameter, as a barrier to hold the desiccant crystals from going into the the tank (McMaster #9317T335, Currently $6.05 for a pack of 10)
> Some JB weld, to hold the mesh disk 2" above the end of the reducer end of the PVC pipe. This extra space acts as a guard against oil splashing on the dessicant (above)
> Desiccant, color changing, I get 2 lb boxes at the local Harbor Freight store.


Assemble and glue mesh in 4" dia. pipe with mesh 2" from the end where the reducer & 2" slip to threaded tank adapter will be attached to the tank. After the epoxy cures, glue the 4" to 2" reducer and adapter on the tank end and then glue the 4" to 2" reducer on the other end. Fill this end with the desiccant and then close with the 2" plug & screw into fuel tank bung (2" female). It would also work with a less than full VO fuel drum.

I'll need an additional part to attach another finished assembly to a tote.

My plan is to remove the plug so I can change out or recharge the desiccant, which I can check weekly.

Alternatively, i could cut out a 1/4" wide strip along the length of the 4" tube where the desiccant will reside, and epoxy a section of clear polyethelene (PET) from a 1 liter coke bottle, so I can monitor the desiccant without touching the breather.

...so little time!

Thoughts?
Late 99 Ford F-250, Designed and installed at home, 30 kMi on VO. WVO temp at solenoid valve is 185-195+F, winter-summer.
HoldOnTight
 
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:40 pm
Location: Dayton OH

Re: My Desiccant Breather - Update!

Postby HoldOnTight » Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:12 am

HoldOnTight wrote:
I don't know where to get a bag of desiccant like Ron has, and I need a few of these anyway (for my truck tank, Totes, and charged spares) so I may just build this (Plan B), quick:

> a 4 in. diameter PVC pipe 6-8" long
> a 2" threaded plug, with a 1/4" hole drilled in the center, for air intake
> 2 of the 4" to 2" reducers, like Ron's using
> 2 of the 2" slip to 2" threaded adapter, AND
> Stainless Mesh Disc Corrosion-Resistant 304 SS Wire Cloth Disc 100 X 100 Mesh, 4" Diameter, .0045" Wire Diameter, 4 in. disk diameter, as a barrier to hold the desiccant crystals from going into the the tank (McMaster #9317T335, Currently $6.05 for a pack of 10)
> Some JB weld, to hold the mesh disk 2" above the end of the reducer end of the PVC pipe. This extra space acts as a guard against oil splashing on the dessicant (above)
> Desiccant, color changing, I get 2 lb boxes at the local Harbor Freight store.


Assemble and glue mesh in 4" dia. pipe with mesh 2" from the end where the reducer & 2" slip to threaded tank adapter will be attached to the tank. After the epoxy cures, glue the 4" to 2" reducer and adapter on the tank end and then glue the 4" to 2" reducer on the other end. Fill this end with the desiccant and then close with the 2" plug & screw into fuel tank bung (2" female). It would also work with a less than full VO fuel drum.

I'll need an additional part to attach another finished assembly to a tote.

My plan is to remove the plug so I can change out or recharge the desiccant, which I can check weekly.

Alternatively, i could cut out a 1/4" wide strip along the length of the 4" tube where the desiccant will reside, and epoxy a section of clear polyethelene (PET) from a 1 liter coke bottle, so I can monitor the desiccant without touching the breather.

...so little time!

Thoughts?


I took a computer fan guard and sealed it just below the Stainless Mesh Disc for support of the desiccant's weight. I made 3 for about $20 excluding the cost of the desiccant. Now I have enough for the truck tank, a tote and a charged spare. Capacity should be in excess of 3 lbs desiccant.
Late 99 Ford F-250, Designed and installed at home, 30 kMi on VO. WVO temp at solenoid valve is 185-195+F, winter-summer.
HoldOnTight
 
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Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:40 pm
Location: Dayton OH

Postby harry3 » Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:59 am

http://rumkin.com/reference/desiccant/
I found this sight interesting.
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Re: My Desiccant Breather - Update!

Postby HoldOnTight » Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:46 am

HoldOnTight wrote:
HoldOnTight wrote:
I don't know where to get a bag of desiccant like Ron has, and I need a few of these anyway (for my truck tank, Totes, and charged spares) so I may just build this (Plan B), quick:

> a 4 in. diameter PVC pipe 6-8" long
> a 2" threaded plug, with a 1/4" hole drilled in the center, for air intake
> 2 of the 4" to 2" reducers, like Ron's using
> 2 of the 2" slip to 2" threaded adapter, AND
> Stainless Mesh Disc Corrosion-Resistant 304 SS Wire Cloth Disc 100 X 100 Mesh, 4" Diameter, .0045" Wire Diameter, 4 in. disk diameter, as a barrier to hold the desiccant crystals from going into the the tank (McMaster #9317T335, Currently $6.05 for a pack of 10)
> Some JB weld, to hold the mesh disk 2" above the end of the reducer end of the PVC pipe. This extra space acts as a guard against oil splashing on the dessicant (above)
> Desiccant, color changing, I get 2 lb boxes at the local Harbor Freight store.


Assemble and glue mesh in 4" dia. pipe with mesh 2" from the end where the reducer & 2" slip to threaded tank adapter will be attached to the tank. After the epoxy cures, glue the 4" to 2" reducer and adapter on the tank end and then glue the 4" to 2" reducer on the other end. Fill this end with the desiccant and then close with the 2" plug & screw into fuel tank bung (2" female). It would also work with a less than full VO fuel drum.

I'll need an additional part to attach another finished assembly to a tote.

My plan is to remove the plug so I can change out or recharge the desiccant, which I can check weekly.

Alternatively, i could cut out a 1/4" wide strip along the length of the 4" tube where the desiccant will reside, and epoxy a section of clear polyethelene (PET) from a 1 liter coke bottle, so I can monitor the desiccant without touching the breather.

...so little time!

Thoughts?


I took a computer fan guard and sealed it just below the Stainless Mesh Disc for support of the desiccant's weight. I made 3 for about $20 excluding the cost of the desiccant. Now I have enough for the truck tank, a tote and a charged spare. Capacity should be in excess of 3 lbs desiccant.


FOLLOWING UP, after recharging a few times:
The desiccant breather works well, but my experience shows:
1. My tank (under a pickup cap for the bed of the truck) needs a desiccant breather for each of the 2 tank ports or moisture can enter one while the other side of the tank is drier! I've just created a Y pipe with a dessicant arm and a "fill" arm. The desiccant dryer's I've made are interchangable with the 2 in male threaded ports, which adapts to the Y-pipe. That should eliminate all moisture intrusion into the 110 gal truck tank.

2. That the bottom crystals hold moisture while the top is still ready to pull moisture, but the top crystals aren't as effective once 75-80% of the capacity is used. I used 2.2 lbs of desiccant which didn't fill the PVC to full capacity with desiccant. So my recommendation is to shorten the 4" diameter PVC by 2-4" A height=diameter form factor is best! Then, when the desiccant is all used, it is time to recharge. The PVC bottle vertical "viewing window" on the is a great way to monitor what is going on without having to disturb the desiccant breather!

Is anyone using this or finding this helpful?
Late 99 Ford F-250, Designed and installed at home, 30 kMi on VO. WVO temp at solenoid valve is 185-195+F, winter-summer.
HoldOnTight
 
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:40 pm
Location: Dayton OH

Postby coachgeo » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:31 am

Interesting.

Idea struck me.

prepare tank for a filler neck.

inside base of neck install a flat plate so that when neck installed on tank... this plate is at an angle.

Drill hole just above plate in neck for water drain.

Drill large hole in plate for fuel to enter tank.

Mount neck.

Braze... weld??.... nipple to drain whole.

Mount tube for moisture to drain away. Should work as tank vent too.

make a removable slip in liner to go in neck and cover drain hole.

when filling with oil/fuel... install liner first to keep from oil/fuel from pouring out moisture drain.

water collects on lip of plate ... drains out hole/vent
Life; It's all in the Balance

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Postby HoldOnTight » Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:45 am

coachgeo wrote:Interesting.

Idea struck me.

prepare tank for a filler neck.

inside base of neck install a flat plate so that when neck installed on tank... this plate is at an angle.

Drill hole just above plate in neck for water drain.

Drill large hole in plate for fuel to enter tank.

Mount neck.

Braze... weld??.... nipple to drain whole.

Mount tube for moisture to drain away. Should work as tank vent too.

make a removable slip in liner to go in neck and cover drain hole.

when filling with oil/fuel... install liner first to keep from oil/fuel from pouring out moisture drain.

water collects on lip of plate ... drains out hole/vent


Coachgeo,
Are you implying that water will condense mostly in the filler neck? Why?

My thought: water condenses primarily in the tank where the air volume is significantly larger and there is a relatively large residence time.
Late 99 Ford F-250, Designed and installed at home, 30 kMi on VO. WVO temp at solenoid valve is 185-195+F, winter-summer.
HoldOnTight
 
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:40 pm
Location: Dayton OH

Postby coachgeo » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:27 pm

HoldOnTight wrote:Coachgeo, Are you implying that water will condense mostly in the filler neck? Why?

My thought: water condenses primarily in the tank where the air volume is significantly larger and there is a relatively large residence time.
Only approached the neck cause the previous decanter post seamed to only deal with moisture around area of the fuel caps. Left me with the impression the moisture was coming from condensation in fuel cap area

The larger surface area of tank ceiling forming condensation makes since. Forced air ventilization across the top air filled area of the tank help solve anything?

orrr... insulate the tank? Put it in a box and surround it with expanding foam? Doesnt condensate form when outside temp on surface of metal differ than inside temp surface and air? With insulation (enough of it) you would allow metal of tank and the air inside to equalize temp?
Life; It's all in the Balance

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Postby coachgeo » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:19 pm

Just realized my brain made a leap to in vehicle tanks and not drum/storage tanks. So ignore me... well partially?

Would insulating help, including a top, as suggested in my last post?

Think some' if Im not mistaken, have forced the air out with Auto Exhaust as they capped it to reduce the moisture issue.
Life; It's all in the Balance

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Postby harry3 » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:11 pm

Yes I am. Will be putting some together soon! Thank-you.
Is anyone using this or finding this helpful?
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