Lovecraft Biofuels: Thoughts/Opinions/Comments/Concerns

Single Tank WVO systems and blending SVO WVO to thin it.

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Lovecraft Biofuels: Thoughts/Opinions/Comments/Concerns

Postby Sith_Slayer » Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:09 pm

I'd like to discuss Lovecraft Biofuels in some detail. I'll confess that they were my intro to the world of SVO/WVO when a buddy of mine "converted" two early-80's MB's to run on VO. He hasn't had any issues or complaints since the install, and I confess that I prefer the notion of a single-tank system to that of a dual-tank, at least for a car. A truck I would be more inclined to outfit with a dual-tank system. I live in Colorado, and if I can get away with running a mix of 80/20 VO/D1 in the winter, then I'll be a happy veggy-camper.

So, with that in mind, please feel free to post any thoughts/comments/concerns/opinions/etc. regarding the "system" that Lovecraft offers.

Their website is: www.lovecraftbiofuels.com

Lemme know whatcha think.
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Re: Lovecraft Biofuels: Thoughts/Opinions/Comments/Concerns

Postby David » Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:33 pm

Sith_Slayer wrote: I live in Colorado, and if I can get away with running a mix of 80/20 VO/D1 in the winter, then I'll be a happy veggy-camper.


My perhaps flawed understanding of Colorado is that it is a very cold place in Winter and would see snow.
Given my experience with an MB which is supposed to be very good on veg in a climate which I believe would be no where near as cold as yours, I don't think you have a hope in hell of running an 80% veg blend of anything in the winter!
Well, not if you ever want your vehicle to start or last very long particularly if you are running one of the less robust IP/ engine designs.

Suffice to say that Lovecraft seem to be regarded as the very worst people in the conversion business and you would best avoid them.

I think you would do very well to put a lot more hours reading time in to sites and forums so you can better understand the requirements of running veg ( particularly in cold climates) and to get a better handle of the over all contempt the love craft mob are held in by the great majority of veggers.
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Until then, it's just more endless gloom and doom Veg folk law.
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Postby SunWizard » Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:43 pm

Their "semi-permanent" filter is horrible for many reasons, and that is about all their "system" consists of. A bag of unknown micron rating and low particle capacity wrapped around a mesh screen $20 goldenrod filter. You are far better off using only your stock vehicle filter and not waste money on that.

And you don't need their worthless booster fuel pump either. The stock mercedes lift pump is one of the strongest around.

Old mercedes can run on V100 in warm weather with no mods. I prefer V80/D20 blends in my 300D for most of the year. In cold weather CO <20F, nothing works except a heated 2 tank rig.

I am using only the small stock 300D filter and haven't clogged one yet in 20k miles.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Postby 240Volvo » Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:47 pm

Any system that does not optimize a diesel engine to burn VO is not an adequate system.

VO fuel must be filtered to 1 micron absolute. It must be heated to a point where it is of a similar viscosity to petro-diesel before the injector pump. It must be injected in a spray pattern and at a timing that is appropriate for VO.

Lovecraft does not provide for ANY of these things to take place.

Next question?
1984 Volvo 240 diesel with a single tank Elsbett conversion: electric fuel filter heater, FPHE, glow plugs, and injectors. Also injector line heaters and block heater, running 20%kero/80%WVO winter blend.
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Postby coachgeo » Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:27 am

240Volvo wrote:Any system that does not optimize a diesel engine to burn VO is not an adequate system.

VO fuel must be filtered to 1 micron absolute. It must be heated to a point where it is of a similar viscosity to petro-diesel before the injector pump. It must be injected in a spray pattern and at a timing that is appropriate for VO.

Lovecraft does not provide for ANY of these things to take place.

Next question?
Not sure there is anyone that provides any of these things to take place, as far as I know. That's a bit too stringent of a vendor test IMHO

Well not to the 1 micron Absolute part.

And Elsbitt one tankers is known world wide and they dont heat the fuel (but they are addmitiningly about the only one with HIGH reputation that does not)

unfortunately I think only one... and its VW WVO systems only; changes the timing to match VO. Wish more would. Elsbitt might also but dont quote me on that.


But, going only by what I have read, Lovecraft's reputation is poor and its designs seem to not match with the convintional thinking of those who have been in the industry a long time.
Life; It's all in the Balance

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Postby 240Volvo » Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:17 am

Hi, Coach

Elsbett does heat the fuel in one tank systems, via an electric fuel filter heater and an FPHE. They also recommend advancing the timing. They don't provide the timing or filtration, but they recommend it (and other things like blending at certain temperatures, and lube oil type and change intervals) as part of the instructions. Those are the reasons that their systems work reliably and that they have the reputatiion that they have for so many years.

Does Lovecraft do anything like that? Given the dangerous filters that they sell, it seems unlikely to me. If my remarks seem a little severe, it is my disgust that anyone would provide such a system to an eager and ill-informed consumer, one who would be trying to do better for themselves and the planet.
1984 Volvo 240 diesel with a single tank Elsbett conversion: electric fuel filter heater, FPHE, glow plugs, and injectors. Also injector line heaters and block heater, running 20%kero/80%WVO winter blend.
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Postby WD8CDH » Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:50 pm

Elsbitt also recomends only new VO, not waste oil.
Ron Schroeder
WD8CDH
'85 MB 300DT 2 Tank
Since '81 former WVO conversions:
'83 240D
'80 Audi 4000D
'83 Isuzu Pup
'86 Golf
'76 Honda Civic with Kubota engine
Prior to the cars, several generators
Kubota Tractor
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Postby WD8CDH » Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:57 pm

240Volvo wrote:Any system that does not optimize a diesel engine to burn VO is not an adequate system.

VO fuel must be filtered to 1 micron absolute. It must be heated to a point where it is of a similar viscosity to petro-diesel before the injector pump. It must be injected in a spray pattern and at a timing that is appropriate for VO.

Lovecraft does not provide for ANY of these things to take place.

Next question?


1 micron absolute is way overkill for an '80s MB. 10 micron is enough for both your fuel processing and in the car filter but you MUST dewater the WVO. Water is much more harmfull to the engine than poor filtering.

With a direct injection diesel, it would be better to filter to 5 micron or preferably 2 micron or less.

If you can't find independant info on Lovecraft, search for Lovecrap.
Ron Schroeder
WD8CDH
'85 MB 300DT 2 Tank
Since '81 former WVO conversions:
'83 240D
'80 Audi 4000D
'83 Isuzu Pup
'86 Golf
'76 Honda Civic with Kubota engine
Prior to the cars, several generators
Kubota Tractor
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Postby 240Volvo » Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:55 pm

My comments were on the only part of the "lovecrap" system that I am familiar with, the "filter". I did not mean to be applying the comment to the requirements of a particular vehicle, only to point out the woefully inadequate "filter" that this thread was referring to. Anyone selling such junk should be run out of town, and the shillers, too.

Of course, water is the enemy, but particulates (especially food, will absorb water. The less stuff of any sort in the fuel, the better.

Elsbett must recommend and only warrantee its products for use with VO that is up to the German standards. There is too much variability in the quality of source WVO, and the filtering and dewatering employed by the customers for them to warrantee its use. Look around at some of the filtering that people do. Some people think that you can just pump waste oil through a water separating (and unrated) filter from the dumpster into their tanks and it is super clean. That sort of idiocy would make short work of any system installed in any car, so the warrantee and recommendations that Elsbett makes are prudent for their legal protection.
1984 Volvo 240 diesel with a single tank Elsbett conversion: electric fuel filter heater, FPHE, glow plugs, and injectors. Also injector line heaters and block heater, running 20%kero/80%WVO winter blend.
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Postby WD8CDH » Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:11 pm

Also, any used oil, no matter how well filtered and de-watered is more viscous than unused oil at ambient temperatures.
Ron Schroeder
WD8CDH
'85 MB 300DT 2 Tank
Since '81 former WVO conversions:
'83 240D
'80 Audi 4000D
'83 Isuzu Pup
'86 Golf
'76 Honda Civic with Kubota engine
Prior to the cars, several generators
Kubota Tractor
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Re: Lovecraft Biofuels: Thoughts/Opinions/Comments/Concerns

Postby volumetric_efficiency » Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:33 am

Sith_Slayer wrote:I live in Colorado, and if I can get away with running a mix of 80/20 VO/D1 in the winter


hello SS, what is the intended altidude of operation, the mile high city is a bit frigid for my taste, even in the summer :)
which vehicle do you intended to use? 80's benzes with their poor cooling system and always on fan clutch may never reach operating temps on short or no load trips! a radiator block will be nessecary... and perhaps more
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Postby 123eddie » Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:59 am

The previous owner of my 79 mercedes spent $900 on a lovecrap conversion and it is weak in very temperate san diego climate. I'm installing a fuel temp gauge first and then the fphe that i bought from bmw fan and go from there. This car would not run below 50 degrees.
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Postby David » Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:51 am

A friend and I separately emailed Elsbeth last year on the WVO question.

We both got similar replies which amounted to if the WVO was filtered to 1Um or below, was dry ( to a standard I now forget) and had a viscosity of a certain rating ( lost email so cant find numbers now) or below, WVO was fine to use.

If one could ever get to the numbers they quoted with WVO was out first though as they seemed to quote in scientific numbers which we had no way of relating to.

We also asked if there were any special injectors they sold optomised for WVO and were told that they only sold them in the conversion kits.
Some subsequent questions went unanswered as we have heard from other people that they answer the first inquiry but ignore any subsequent ones.
_____________________

I don't give a damn about what might or could happen until a significant group of people can tell me it HAS happened to them.
Until then, it's just more endless gloom and doom Veg folk law.
David
 
Posts: 333
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:12 am
Location: Sydney Australia

Postby WD8CDH » Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:37 am

Elsbett requires a viscosity max of 38 cSt at 40 C and contaminants to 25ppm. The viscosity of used oils is usually higher than that.

DIN 14214 standard for water in biodiesel is 500ppm.
Ron Schroeder
WD8CDH
'85 MB 300DT 2 Tank
Since '81 former WVO conversions:
'83 240D
'80 Audi 4000D
'83 Isuzu Pup
'86 Golf
'76 Honda Civic with Kubota engine
Prior to the cars, several generators
Kubota Tractor
WD8CDH
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 11:44 am
Location: NY

Postby SunWizard » Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:12 am

WD8CDH wrote:Elsbett requires a viscosity max of 38 cSt at 40 C and contaminants to 25ppm. The viscosity of used oils is usually higher than that.

All of my WVO has measured less than 38cSt, and some of it is Soy from very nasty sources where its totally black and overused, and it is 32cSt. Soy is thicker than canola.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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