Group Purchase of diesel ignition timing measure tools and..

For discussing the modifications needed for diesel vehicles to run with 2 tank veggie oil conversions.

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Group Purchase of diesel ignition timing measure tools and..

Postby coachgeo » Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:56 pm

ok, the big missing link IMHO to get full value of VO fuels is the lack of means and knowledge to adjust timing, to measure ignition timing, and to measure combustion efficency.

These work together.

1. Measure efficiency
2. Measure existing timing
3. Adjust timing
4. Measure efficency
5. Repeat till you got it right.

WHAT; if any equipment can we buy as a group, that can be shipped around to users who pay a rental fee..... that we can do this sort of thing with.

I know for VW we could all chip in on a VagCom.... Dont know about other types of cars....

Open to suggestions.

PS- Also we need a thread in here on how to adjust timing on various engines. the Thread I suspect would have a post on each engine type commonly used for WVO. Opening thread Would be best IMHO to include a link to website that has this proceedure already explained. For example an MB bulletin board thread explaining how to adjust the timing on MB 617 engines.
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Postby BMW Fan » Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:23 pm

I can rent / or sell the CARSOFT 6.5 program for BMW Diesel.
It comes with all connectors/ plugs

I can offer VAG, too if wanted.
VAG-COM 704.1 on diskette plus connectors/ cables

For MB
Compact3 MB Star 2008

Prices on request

It works with a LAPTOP computer and only for cars with ECU from 1998 and up.

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Postby rkpatt » Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:18 pm

Something more universal -

A piezo pulse timing light adapter with an assortment of popular size line adapters -
http://www.ferretinstruments.com/Ferret/765/765.html

( there may be other brands out there ) + timing light with advance adjustment

http://www.ferretinstruments.com/Catego ... ights.html


How to use -

Ford 6.9/7.3 IDI -
http://www.thedieselstop.com/forums/f30 ... er-157753/
Last edited by rkpatt on Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:55 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby coachgeo » Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:39 pm

GREAT.... we are getting somewhere. Keep it rolling on the choices for measure timing.

Now, anyone got ideas on measuring combustion efficiency? Maybe we can establish a test concept like.... pull your neighbors car on a chain to load your vehicle and do a 0 to 40mph and time it? Adjust your timing and repeat the test? Something like this would be cheaper than buying a box with sensors in it you install and feed into a computer.
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Postby BMW Fan » Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:39 pm

coachgeo wrote: Something like this would be cheaper than buying a box with sensors in it you install and feed into a computer.


What's your point, Coach ?
Are we looking to go for the better, then the sensors and computer are the ONLY way for a dynamic, active, on the spot change.

Static changes can be done but are totally senseless on newer cars.
It's like advertising to go back to the stone age and not using the advantages which are available.
All German companies doing Single and 2 tank tank ( even on Palm oil,) or participating in races use the OBD reader and programming abilities.

One example for PD andCommon rail:

http://www.wolf-pflanzenoel-technik.de/


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http://www.crawldog.com/klausold/
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Postby coachgeo » Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:03 am

BMW Fan wrote:
coachgeo wrote: Something like this would be cheaper than buying a box with sensors in it you install and feed into a computer.


What's your point, Coach ?
Are we looking to go for the better, then the sensors and computer are the ONLY way for a dynamic, active, on the spot change....
Agreed. Sensors hooked to puters are better. Just are they so much better than a real world test that cost only time? I can't answer this. Do not have the knowldege. Now for cars that are already computerized and already have some sensors in place then maybe its like a vagCom and you just plug it in to existing stuff so cost is reasonable? I dont know???

Also this could require buying sensors and readers for every engine type we might convert out there. Where a backyard generic test might be universal. Granted the results would be different per engine type. Heck even different per WVO and blends. Just as long as the user can tell if his timing adjustments made any difference is all that matters right?

and some dont have sensors, MB older VW Older, etc etc.

Open to suggestions
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Postby BMW Fan » Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:42 am

coachgeo wrote: Just are they so much better than a real world test that cost only time? reasonable? I dont know???



Let's asume that you do your kind of test.
You might go uphill and carry a load.
That might or might not help you to adjust YOUR engine.

It does not create help for me or others since my engine condition is better or worse then yours. You can't transfer your results.

Only the ECU is able to sense values for my specific motor and is able to alow adjustments accordingly.

Your Golf tdi 2003 is a good example how superior the adjustment can be done compared to your Mercedes 300 SD.

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http://www.crawldog.com/klausold/
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Postby coachgeo » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:49 pm

BMW Fan wrote:....Let's asume that you do your kind of test.
You might go uphill and carry a load.
That might or might not help you to adjust YOUR engine.

It does not create help for me or others since my engine condition is better or worse then yours. You can't transfer your results....
Correct. Was not intending to be looking for transfer of results.
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Postby coachgeo » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:51 pm

came across this on infopop

Originally posted by Johann Cape Town:
... Retard timing on petro-diesel and the the motor will also run quieter.

I set my timing on a given hill in third gear for the lowest exhaust temp to maintain 60kph. Bio needs at least 3 degrees advance to achieve the lowest temp. Ignition is exactly at the start of injection. 3ct Syncro Vanagon.
What do you folk think of a test like this for evaluating if your timing is set at its optimal place?
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Postby SunWizard » Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:17 pm

coachgeo wrote:came across this on infopop

Originally posted by Johann Cape Town:
... Retard timing on petro-diesel and the the motor will also run quieter.

I set my timing on a given hill in third gear for the lowest exhaust temp to maintain 60kph. Bio needs at least 3 degrees advance to achieve the lowest temp. Ignition is exactly at the start of injection. 3ct Syncro Vanagon.
What do you folk think of a test like this for evaluating if your timing is set at its optimal place?

Looks good to me as long as you are careful, same ambient, coolant, and VO temp, etc.
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Postby big_mike » Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:00 am

For getting a handle on improvements in power I was planning on getting one of these from ebay:

http://www.gtechpro.com/rr.html

Got a nice empty level straight piece of road, not too far from home and figure that if I use rolling starts and measure the acceleration between two speeds (say 20 to 80 miles per hour) this should pick up improvements in power. I also have an EGT probe enroute from these guys:

http://www.thesensorconnection.com/egt_ ... _probe.htm

Which seemed to offer a very reasonable price.

Plan of attack is to go for max power but leaving a good safety margin with exhaust gas temps.

Would be really useful to have some means of measuring the amount of soot I kick out whilst on the move.
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