Hybrid Unheated 2-Tank System

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Hybrid Unheated 2-Tank System

Postby Burbarian » Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:05 pm

The Half Arsed Twin Tank Unheated System (HATTUS -TM)

Start with diesel.
Warm up engine.
Switch to V80/K20 blend.
Run.
Purge with D2.
Stop.

Basically for equipment that one wouldn't be using frequently enough and only in warm enough weather to not really justify a full blown heated twin tank system. Like agricultural tractors. Currently digging a diversion ditch with the excavator, and it runs quite happily on the HATTUS. The 'conversion', if it could even be called that, uses a looped fuel return, a single manual 3-way brass ball valve, and a 1-gallon metal can for the diesel 'tank'. To echo the gecko, it's so easy a caveman could do it.

The bulldozer I'll do a full conversion, as it makes the mother of all snow plows.


Please feel free to criticize and ridicule. :)
1987 GMC Suburban 6.2L V8 IDI
1985 Merc 300TD
1968 CAT D4D 3304 dozer
1971 Waldon 4100 loader
1981 IHI 30F excavator
1995 Changfa 195 w/ ST 10kw genset
Burbarian
 
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Location: Vermont

Postby WD8CDH » Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:46 am

It's probably better than a heated one tank conversion. :)
Ron Schroeder
WD8CDH
'85 MB 300DT 2 Tank
Since '81 former WVO conversions:
'83 240D
'80 Audi 4000D
'83 Isuzu Pup
'86 Golf
'76 Honda Civic with Kubota engine
Prior to the cars, several generators
Kubota Tractor
WD8CDH
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 11:44 am
Location: NY

Postby Performance Plus WVO » Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:47 pm

Its not if it will work rather how long it will work.
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Postby Mac99 » Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:31 pm

Maybe just add an FPHE as insurance against thermal shock at switchover?
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Postby Performance Plus WVO » Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:22 pm

Sounds like an expensive proposition. Iron parts as I am shure you know are made of unofordium right now. But lets say you burn 150 gallons all year in the equipment as you say you dont use it often. Lets pretend diesel is 8 a gallon thats 1200 bucks and I am not shure you can get a IP for 1200 it may be money ahead to focus on equipment or a vehicle you use more. Although if your doing it just for fun rock and roll with your bad self. A HPFE shure wont hurt.
Performance Plus WVO
 
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How do you know if it is only a matter of time...

Postby HoldOnTight » Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:04 pm

If you want to run the risk, it is an interesting experiment. What kind of combustion chamber do these engines have?
Is it like the older Mercedes, with a prechamber -- excellent

If it is some other, like DI, how will you monitor the health of the injectors, the buildup of poly in the engine oil??

It may sound like it is running great, and 20 percent D2 may pull the viscosity down, but that engine needs to be working hard with the blend IMO or you will plasticize the rings...any way to check that without engine teardown???

So, again, how do you know if damage is being done and it is only a matter of time to engine failure????

HoldOnTight
Late 99 Ford F-250, Designed and installed at home, 30 kMi on VO. WVO temp at solenoid valve is 185-195+F, winter-summer.
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Postby Burbarian » Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:26 pm

The engine is a constant load power plant driving a hydraulic pump. The drive system uses left and right track hydraulic motors, and the landing legs, excavator arm cylinders and bucket cylinder are of course all hydraulic. The pump puts out a constant 3000psi to the control valves, and there is a pressure relief bypass at 3200 for return-to-tank (unused pressurized hydraulic fluid). So the engine runs continuously hot. There is of course a throttle for more power under heavier load, but lightly used as the engine and pump are mated to produce optimum hydraulic pressure at the engine's optimum power band. Very similar to a Bomag road roller or a Bobcat or New Holland skidsteer in power and drive system arrangement. No clutches, transmissions, differentials, transfer cases, steering linkages, etc.

The injection pump is a linear spool plunger type with a slider rack actuator, very similar to a CAT 3304 design and virtually bomb proof. I run the light upflow settled oil in the blend, and leave the heavy fractions for the heated rigs. The Merc is on a similar setup, using light fraction oil blended with k1.

It's mostly for experimentation. The Changfa generator I've been running for close to a thousand hours on light fraction oil and RUG blend. Very handy during the unfortunately rather frequent power outages we get in rural mountain country.
1987 GMC Suburban 6.2L V8 IDI
1985 Merc 300TD
1968 CAT D4D 3304 dozer
1971 Waldon 4100 loader
1981 IHI 30F excavator
1995 Changfa 195 w/ ST 10kw genset
Burbarian
 
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:14 pm
Location: Vermont

Postby WD8CDH » Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:36 am

Sounds like you are running only one filter so your purge times are long. With well dewatered fuel, you are probably not doing much harm to the engine on that type of load if you don't switch over before the engine is warm.

I would still probably add a heat exchanger between the filter and the engine. The cheapest would be a TIH.
Ron Schroeder
WD8CDH
'85 MB 300DT 2 Tank
Since '81 former WVO conversions:
'83 240D
'80 Audi 4000D
'83 Isuzu Pup
'86 Golf
'76 Honda Civic with Kubota engine
Prior to the cars, several generators
Kubota Tractor
WD8CDH
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 11:44 am
Location: NY

How long will it work, if it won't work...

Postby HoldOnTight » Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:32 pm

Unheated systems were reported to run for about 1000 mi. when engine trouble started. Of course, it is probably vehicle dependent but I would guess the lower viscosity to help quite a bit before engine damage is evident. This is uncharted territory, so I'm interested to know what you find out.
Late 99 Ford F-250, Designed and installed at home, 30 kMi on VO. WVO temp at solenoid valve is 185-195+F, winter-summer.
HoldOnTight
 
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:40 pm
Location: Dayton OH

Postby WD8CDH » Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:46 pm

Short life on unheated systems seems to come mostly from poor oil processing and from starting. I am not really a fan of either unheated systems or single tank systems but this particular engine seems to have an IP that is heated by the engine coolant and is being started on diesel so I would suspect that the VO is injected rather warm. I would be very suprised if it fails in as few as 1000 miles equivalent under those operating conditions.

I have some experience with unheated fryer oil in generators that were started on diesel and run on the waste oil. Several thousand hours and no abnormal wear at tear dow.
Ron Schroeder
WD8CDH
'85 MB 300DT 2 Tank
Since '81 former WVO conversions:
'83 240D
'80 Audi 4000D
'83 Isuzu Pup
'86 Golf
'76 Honda Civic with Kubota engine
Prior to the cars, several generators
Kubota Tractor
WD8CDH
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 11:44 am
Location: NY


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