One tank on a W123 300D NA engine

Single Tank WVO systems and blending SVO WVO to thin it.

Moderators: SunWizard, coachgeo

One tank on a W123 300D NA engine

Postby Zulu » Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:35 am

Hi there fellow forum guys. I am In South Africa and have been running my benz on one tank for 20 000 miles now. I have 2 filters that filter the oil to 1 micron and have a 1 micron filter in the car's engine bay. I also have a flat plate heater in the engine that pulls heat from the heater hose and the WVO flows from the heater into the injector pump, the hose between the 2 is about 20cm(8 Inches).

I have not once had a single problem, I change the filter in the car every 5000Km with the engine oil. I glow for 20 seconds in the morning, and although the car runs a little rough in the morning, for about a minute, I pull out and drive around the block once or twice while I wait for my kiddies to come to the gate, so that I can drop them at school. When I get back from driving round the block, the engine is already quite warm, up to 60 degrees on the gauge, load the kids and off I go.

People are telling me that the engine should have "gone" long ago.

Are there others that run on one tank and have had horror stories or are these horrors just marketing tools to buy 2 tank systems. I will get some pics of my set up and post it.

BTW, the car is a W123 Mercedes 300D non turbo.
Living in Africa, Driving on the goodness of the Sun and the rain, and loving every Km of it!!

72000 Km on the greasy stuff already... Oh Africa.. such a nice place to live!!!
Zulu
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 12:04 am

Postby David » Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:08 am

Having one of these vehicles myself and never thinking it would last the 6 months till the rego ran out when I first bought it, I tried all manner of things in mine that were all mortal WVO sins and the info endlessly espoused on forums from range of "
experts" would have one believing that the car shouldn't have tolerated this sort of treatment for more than week.

My belief is that this particular vehicle/ injector pump/ engine could be successfully run on cold veg for eternity and would not fail because of it. I don't believe there are many/any others that could, but due to several design characteristics of this vehicle, I believe it could.

I ran mine is a similar way to yours for some months with initially no HE and then I put one on it which improved performance till the engine reached operating temp. For some time I would start the engine on bio then swap the fuel lines and run veg with no heating at all. in the time I did this, I had no problems at all either.

There are those that will probably offer up as an excuse for out success some drivel like we experience 100oF days all year round in endless summers rather than admit that much of the dearly held and outdated beliefs in the use of veg are totaly and utterly flawed but if they want to worry needlessly and don't want to accept reality over folk law thats fine.

I'll just keep happily motoring toward that veg catastrophe that they keep telling me is going to happen but keeps on failing to surface. I spose when my 30+ year old car with 400,000+ Km finally dies, they will all gleefully point out how right they were in telling me I would kill my engine doing that, like the things would other wise last for 100 years and 10 million KM If I had have done it "Right". :roll:
_____________________

I don't give a damn about what might or could happen until a significant group of people can tell me it HAS happened to them.
Until then, it's just more endless gloom and doom Veg folk law.
David
 
Posts: 333
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:12 am
Location: Sydney Australia

Postby Zulu » Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:16 am

Just reading all the other posts, seeing as I am a Newbie here. It seems I am doing all the wrong things. On my 2000Mile drive a week ago, I collected oil directly from the restaurant, filtered it through a cloth filter to get all the BCBs out and then into the tank. In the engine I have a 1 micron cartridge filter, that I change every 5000Km. The oil that I put in would have been burnt out by the time I got home.

Is the oil on the fly not a good idea. I have done it many many times in the last year and don't seem to have problems. With regard to the water, most of the restaurants here let the oil cool and then toss them back in to the 20L plastic drums they came in, so if the oil was at 200Degrees C, then there can not be any water inthem, or am I misunderstanding the process all the time.
Living in Africa, Driving on the goodness of the Sun and the rain, and loving every Km of it!!

72000 Km on the greasy stuff already... Oh Africa.. such a nice place to live!!!
Zulu
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 12:04 am

Postby BMW Fan » Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:59 am

Zulu wrote: In the engine I have a 1 micron cartridge filter, that I change every 5000Km.


May I ask you for the brand name of your filter ?
I am looking to find a 1 micron filter.

BMW Fan
BMW Fan
 
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:48 am
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Postby Zulu » Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:04 am

They are actually water filters(Gonna pick up some flack for that as well) but have found that by using 2, one in the garage to filter my oil initially and one in the car, works beautifully... The cartridge is very cheap, ZAR15, that is about AUS1$ or CAN$1
Image
Living in Africa, Driving on the goodness of the Sun and the rain, and loving every Km of it!!

72000 Km on the greasy stuff already... Oh Africa.. such a nice place to live!!!
Zulu
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 12:04 am

Postby coachgeo » Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:24 am

Zulu wrote:They are actually water filters(Gonna pick up some flack for that as well)...
No flack. It's been done. Just be aware you get lot of leak by with these filters so your getting no where near 1 micron. Others that have used them find they allow dirty oil to leak by the ends of the filter. For a while someone was even selling a felt washer you might call it that was added above and below the filter to help prevent this. You can put an inline generic clear fuel filter after to this beast as a test to see how dirty your oil really is. If you plug it up easy.... yikes.

Is your 1 micron before the OEM MB fuel filters or after?

now back to water. you can test your oil from resturants before you use it. single burner LP camping stove and a pan you keep in the trunk. do a search for "Hot Pan Test" to learn how to test for water.

Why your sins have not haunted you yet? You got the most veg. loving engine known to man in that there 300d. You could put manure in that fuel tank and it probably will run on it. That and the heat of Africa.

I would IMHO do a fuel system clean out often with something like LubroMolly Diesel Purge to clean your injectors good.

Also maybe look into getting a kitchen top Acme Juicerator of some sort to use as a Centrifuge to clean your oil. also could instead or in addition too consider a "cold upflow" settling system for your home filter system.

Folk have used this Acme on the Road but you got to stop and take time to do it. Those that do this successfully do it while on extended camping type trips. The Juicerator is a low buck, somewhat hokey and experemental way to do it, and its time consuming. A search for "Acme" in here and over at infopop should net you some information on how to go about this.
Life; It's all in the Balance

Moderator
coachgeo
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:46 am
Location: North Texas

Postby BMW Fan » Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:17 am

Zulu wrote:They are actually water filters(Gonna pick up some flack for that as well) but have found that by using 2, one in the garage to filter my oil initially and one in the car, works beautifully... The cartridge is very cheap, ZAR15, that is about AUS1$ or CAN$1
Image


Thanks for the info. Good that it works for you.
But no, that's definitely not what I am looking for.
Your filter doesn't take heat well and is a source for air leaks.
Are you using this filter as a pre-filter in front of your original Mercedes filter ?

BMW Fan


http://www.crawldog.com/klausold/
BMW Fan
 
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:48 am
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Postby John Galt » Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:21 pm

I wouldn't use a water filter on the vehicle for a number of reasons already mentioned. However I do use a whole house water filter as the final 5µ filter on my upflow processor.

Just be aware you get lot of leak by with these filters so your getting no where near 1 micron. Others that have used them find they allow dirty oil to leak by the ends of the filter.


This is NOT the case with all WH filters; the cheap ones might leak past the cartridge, the one I use does not.
John Galt
 
Posts: 526
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:17 pm
Location: Coldest North America

Postby SunWizard » Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:33 pm

John Galt wrote:This is NOT the case with all WH filters; the cheap ones might leak past the cartridge, the one I use does not.

How much pressure can yours take before leaking? On your upflow rig there is no pressure, so it makes sense they would work there. Several have said they can only handle 7psi before unseen leakage occurs, most vehicle pumps can exceed this.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1720
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:53 pm
Location: N. Colorado

Postby John Galt » Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:16 pm

Since it does not leak I wouldn't know how much pressure it will take to leak. I've seen as high as 20psi when cranking cold fuel through the filter. With the design of the Rainfresh filter, the higher the pressure, the better the cartridge seals until it implodes, [I suppose], though I've never experienced this.
John Galt
 
Posts: 526
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:17 pm
Location: Coldest North America

Postby Zulu » Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:59 pm

On the right of the filter you can see a round black pump, with the red wire going into it. This is a HUCO suction pump and the pressure side is max 1,4 Psi. According to the manufacturer, they say that there will be no leakage at the top or bottom because the oil makes the cartridge well up and forces a seal. They say that however in the first few minutes, of replacing the cartridge, there may be some seepage, but once it is saturated, there is little chance of anything getting through.

I did change the pipe from the tank to the front from a 8mm to a 16mm, so the fuel in the tank actually presses the fuel to the front, there by effectively extending the tank from the back to almost right by the engine. My pipes are all silicone, and have found that occasionally I need to take up the clamps a crack because they tend to deform and then the clamp is half to a quarter turn loose.

I pre filter through a material filter, then through one of these blue filters then into the tank.

No, I have bypassed the "spin on" filter because they tend to clog up after 500-600KM and they are 5 X the price of a cartridge in the blue filter.

Today is real WINTER here by us, rainy and really miserable weather, but the temp outside is still 61F
Living in Africa, Driving on the goodness of the Sun and the rain, and loving every Km of it!!

72000 Km on the greasy stuff already... Oh Africa.. such a nice place to live!!!
Zulu
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 12:04 am

Postby BMW Fan » Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:43 am

You are willing to take risks and that’s fine, I guess.
Yes , I could see your pump but 1,2 psi seems strange and not right.
Going to 16mm instead of 8 mm has a very big influence. Good step.
But assuming that it presses the fuel to the front is definitely not correct.
Your tank outlet is low …the position of your filter high, so your conclusion is a myth to me.
A much better explanation is the strong Mercedes pump and the always high temperatures.
In a former life in the analytical field I had to deal with Silicone hoses used on peristaltic pumps and the one thing I remember, they are a pain to work with. They stretch endless and blow up under pressure.
If it was me, I’d change that the very next minute because I believe it is dangerous.
I wonder why your Mercedes “spin on “ filters block after 500-600km.
That is a 10 micron filter !!!! 10 x “ worse” then your prefiltering.
A conclusion could be that your “ blue water filter “ is not as good is you think.
Bypassing the Mercedes filter solved the problem and the dirt goes right into your injector pump. Think about it .

Klaus
BMW Fan
 
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:48 am
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Postby Zulu » Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:55 am

BMW Fan wrote:You are willing to take risks and that’s fine, I guess.
Yes , I could see your pump but 1,2 psi seems strange and not right.
Going to 16mm instead of 8 mm has a very big influence. Good step.
But assuming that it presses the fuel to the front is definitely not correct.
Your tank outlet is low …the position of your filter high, so your conclusion is a myth to me.
A much better explanation is the strong Mercedes pump and the always high temperatures.
In a former life in the analytical field I had to deal with Silicone hoses used on peristaltic pumps and the one thing I remember, they are a pain to work with. They stretch endless and blow up under pressure.
If it was me, I’d change that the very next minute because I believe it is dangerous.
I wonder why your Mercedes “spin on “ filters block after 500-600km.
That is a 10 micron filter !!!! 10 x “ worse” then your prefiltering.
A conclusion could be that your “ blue water filter “ is not as good is you think.
Bypassing the Mercedes filter solved the problem and the dirt goes right into your injector pump. Think about it .

Klaus


With the 16 mm pipe, if I keep it level, the oil runs right to the engine, in fact, if I disconnect it and let it drop to the ground, the oil will run out. The tank outlet is right on the bottom of the tank. I have removed the screw in pipe into the tank and drilled it out, and soldered a "reducer" the other way round for a plumbing pipe, so it goes from 12mm to 16mm in a space of 20mm.

Is the spin on a 10 micron, because the Blue Filter is rated 1micron.

The sequence is to let the oil settle in the sun for a few weeks. and then pre filter and then 2x1micron and then heat up before it hits the IP...

I take suggestions on board, because I know that I don't know the half of the info that is out there, and many people are still finding out better ways to do things, so critisism is MOST welcome, because that gets us all thinking, even if we don't say so.

Thanks for the informative "non nuking" criticism.
Living in Africa, Driving on the goodness of the Sun and the rain, and loving every Km of it!!

72000 Km on the greasy stuff already... Oh Africa.. such a nice place to live!!!
Zulu
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 12:04 am

Postby Zulu » Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:03 am

The pump I have is a HUCO 1,4PSI HUCO Webpage I don't use the Mercedes pump because when I change the filter, it is easier than pumping my butt off to get the filter full, ie priming the system.
Living in Africa, Driving on the goodness of the Sun and the rain, and loving every Km of it!!

72000 Km on the greasy stuff already... Oh Africa.. such a nice place to live!!!
Zulu
 
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 12:04 am

Postby BMW Fan » Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:17 am

Zulu wrote:Is the spin on a 10 micron, because the Blue Filter is rated 1micron.


The Mercedes filter is rated 10 micron, so the question is why is it clogging

Klaus
BMW Fan
 
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:48 am
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Next

Return to Single Tank Systems and Blending

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron