Diesel thru single FPHE or not??

For discussing the modifications needed for diesel vehicles to run with 2 tank veggie oil conversions.

Moderators: SunWizard, coachgeo

Postby BMW Fan » Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:18 pm

Hi chasee,

as I said, if it works for you.. enjoy.
I run heated filters and any fats are melted without a need for back flushing.
Back flushing is against every logic.
A filter is there to catch particles and not to release them again.
If there are no particles and your filter is blocked by " fats" then your filter is not getting hot enough. The melting point of fats do not change all of a sudden.
I don't care about filter life but usually have no problem because I use my centrifuge for cleaning.
I am interested to run a system which is bullet proof.
It has to stand Canadian / Nova Scotian weather.
That's real world experience, IMHO, too.

BMW Fan

http://www.crawldog.com/klausold/
BMW Fan
 
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:48 am
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Postby chasee » Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:09 pm

Thing is, it wasn't fats. The Fleetguard tech said that some kind of wax was being formed that chemically bonded with the filter medium and blocked the pores. Something which would not then re-melt. My filter gets to a toasty 190F even in the coldest temps in New England, so whatever the stuff is, it sure did not want to melt.

It seems that others have also experienced the same problem once Greasecar started instructing installers to T the return in before the filter. GC did this so the return fuel would pickup heat again in the filter, and also to avoid people using the purge to try and extend the life of an obviously clogged filter. Everyone who then switched the return back to after the filter got normal filter life again. But, I don't know of anyone who had the problem and was not using Fleetguard, so maybe there is some issue with Fleetguard's materials and WVO? Who knows.
2005 Golf GLS PD-TDI, 5-speed. Grease Car kit installed right off the lot when brand new. Running on WVO about 85% of the time.
chasee
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 8:07 pm

Postby BMW Fan » Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:47 pm

OK, then wax.
Any idea how " wax" comes into the fryer ?

If people talk about wax they usually refer to summer Diesel.
If used in winter time Glycerin or wax is separated caused by low temp.
But there is no glycerin or wax in used vegetable oil.

BMW Fan

http://www.crawldog.com/klausold/
BMW Fan
 
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:48 am
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Postby chasee » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:46 am

BMW Fan wrote:OK, then wax.
Any idea how " wax" comes into the fryer ?

If people talk about wax they usually refer to summer Diesel.
If used in winter time Glycerin or wax is separated caused by low temp.
But there is no glycerin or wax in used vegetable oil.

BMW Fan

http://www.crawldog.com/klausold/


Beats me. Only way to really know is to have a similarly clogged filter analyzed.
2005 Golf GLS PD-TDI, 5-speed. Grease Car kit installed right off the lot when brand new. Running on WVO about 85% of the time.
chasee
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 8:07 pm

Postby Johnh » Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:44 am

BMW Fan wrote:OK, then wax.
Any idea how " wax" comes into the fryer ?

If people talk about wax they usually refer to summer Diesel.
If used in winter time Glycerin or wax is separated caused by low temp.
But there is no glycerin or wax in used vegetable oil.

BMW Fan

http://www.crawldog.com/klausold/


Quote from "a guide to Organic vegetable Oil"
sorry I didnt keep the Author or publisher

Vegetable oil in its purest form is a mixture of several triacylglicerides. A triacylgliceride is basically a molecule of glycerin with three fatty acid chains attached
and
The only difference between an oil and a wax is the melting point. An oil is a liquid at room temperature and a wax is a hard solid at room temperature. In between these two are fats that are substances that are soft solids at room temperature.

Regards
John
Johnh
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:16 am

Postby 240Volvo » Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:40 am

Yes, and water is nothing but hydrogen and oxygen. But it remains water until something happens to it to change its state. VO is not wax, but summer diesel is a "paraffin." Glycerine does not "fall out" of VO without something more than sitting in a fuel tank, or being brought up to engine temperature, happening to it.
1984 Volvo 240 diesel with a single tank Elsbett conversion: electric fuel filter heater, FPHE, glow plugs, and injectors. Also injector line heaters and block heater, running 20%kero/80%WVO winter blend.
240Volvo
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:34 am
Location: New Jersey

Postby BMW Fan » Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:12 am

Johnh wrote:
BMW Fan wrote:OK, then wax.
Any idea how " wax" comes into the fryer ?

If people talk about wax they usually refer to summer Diesel.
If used in winter time Glycerin or wax is separated caused by low temp.
But there is no glycerin or wax in used vegetable oil.

BMW Fan

http://www.crawldog.com/klausold/


Quote from "a guide to Organic vegetable Oil"
sorry I didnt keep the Author or publisher

Vegetable oil in its purest form is a mixture of several triacylglicerides. A triacylgliceride is basically a molecule of glycerin with three fatty acid chains attached
and
The only difference between an oil and a wax is the melting point. An oil is a liquid at room temperature and a wax is a hard solid at room temperature. In between these two are fats that are substances that are soft solids at room temperature.

Regards
John


Hi John,

I am aware of this article. You and the article are 100 % correct.
Are you assuming a triacylgliceride is the same as Glycerin ?

Do you believe someone eating French fries gets a mouthful of wax ?
Do a test, prepare your French fries yourself.
Put them in the freezer to cool them down below minus 8 degree Celsius if you are using Canola oil.
Do you get waxed French fries ? I don't think so.

Anyway, the whole theory of wax blocking the filter at 190 Fahrenheit as Chasee and now the Performance men reports is absolute not understandable.

Glycerin in summer Diesel is very common and sold all over NA.
Now, this Diesel containing Glycerin is used to back flush a filter blocked by Glycerin.
Please help me out. What's wrong with this theory ?

BMW Fan

http://www.crawldog.com/klausold/
BMW Fan
 
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:48 am
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Postby Performance Plus WVO » Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:09 pm

Glycerin in summer Diesel is very common and sold all over NA.
Now, this Diesel containing Glycerin is used to back flush a filter blocked by Glycerin.
Please help me out. What's wrong with this theory ?

BMW Fan
Here is the thing. You can argue a point and put a spin on whatever you want. This whole conversation began with trying to help a guy. My work is not theory I do not second guess my self with inconclusive pondering thoughts. I do not look at reference material because I need to know what chemicals leave a soap scum on my shower. I have converted multiple diesels without any major problems. I was simply trying to give this guy some free advice. Why am I wasting my time tying to prove or disprove theory's with you I am not sure. Here is the point when a person says this works for me stop wasting time trying to be bad ass and disprove their ideas. I am shure you are on of the smartest people on this forum but humor us retards who have been there and done that. A lot of people want to play the I am smarter game than you are. I want to learn the pertinant facts such as what causes crap to blow up on the interstate not what chemical coumpound sticks to my butt when I dont wipe well. I hope you understand that this should not be a pissing match rather we should share our personal sucess like the originator of this site did and help a lot of people in the process. Its not wise to discredit someones practices as bogus. Especially when they are being cordial,polite and have a freindly demeanor in trying to explain how and why it works well for them.
Performance Plus WVO
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 9:18 pm

Postby BMW Fan » Sat Jul 05, 2008 1:23 pm

Performence......,

go on if you want with your rant......

I wrote :

Hi chasee,
as I said, if it works for you.. enjoy.

That counts for you, too.

Have a nice weekend

BMW Fan

http://www.crawldog.com/klausold/
BMW Fan
 
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:48 am
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Postby biovindiesel » Sat Jul 05, 2008 8:37 pm

Without need to direct flame, hate, or angst at anyone..
Can we all agree that backflushing a filter is not the best idea?
Here is why, in a three part mini-series event.

Episode One:
Image
Episode Two:
Image
Episode Three (3):
Image
© 2008 ~Cv aka biovindiesel
~Cv
biovindiesel
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 7:01 pm
Location: Tallahassee

Postby chasee » Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:31 pm

Only problem with those diagrams is that many WVO systems have the return WVO fuel T'd in to the supply line, either before or after the WVO filter. They do not return to the tank.

So in my case, as well as all the people with Greasecar kits and similar, there is no way for the contaminants to propagate past the WVO filter, regardless of purge procedure.

Now, on another note, can we stop the debate about fats, wax, etc? Something happens with Fleetguard filter medium, CHEMICALLY, which results in the pores being clogged with something OTHER THAN particulate. What it really is has not been determined. Backflushing Fleetguard filters with D2 prevents this problem.
2005 Golf GLS PD-TDI, 5-speed. Grease Car kit installed right off the lot when brand new. Running on WVO about 85% of the time.
chasee
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 8:07 pm

Postby John Galt » Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:33 pm

Glycerin in summer Diesel is very common and sold all over NA.


Bullfudge; where would someone get such a ridiculous notion?
John Galt
 
Posts: 526
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:17 pm
Location: Coldest North America

Postby BMW Fan » Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:38 am

Hi John Galt,

I stand corrected.
Paraffin ( Wax) is used in summer Diesel and not Glycerin.
I am sorry for misleading. :oops:

BMW Fan

http://www.crawldog.com/klausold/
:oops:
BMW Fan
 
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:48 am
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Postby John Galt » Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:53 pm

Klaus, thanks for clearing that up, and I apologize for the strength of my comment.

Here's some 'food for thought'. If summer diesel is a saturated solution of paraffin, then is it possible that the addition of VO to that solution might cause the paraffin to precipitate from the solution? Might this also cause fats in the VO to also precipitate out, especially when the mix cools overnight?
John Galt
 
Posts: 526
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:17 pm
Location: Coldest North America

Postby Welder » Sun Jul 06, 2008 2:24 pm

John Galt wrote:Klaus, thanks for clearing that up, and I apologize for the strength of my comment.

Here's some 'food for thought'. If summer diesel is a saturated solution of paraffin, then is it possible that the addition of VO to that solution might cause the paraffin to precipitate from the solution? Might this also cause fats in the VO to also precipitate out, especially when the mix cools overnight?


That is a good theory John. Guys like you and Sushi Blender might be good candidates to test that, since you both have plenty of experience blending.
"Is there anybody out there?"

Roger Waters
Welder
 
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:06 am
Location: B.C. Canada

PreviousNext

Return to 2 Tank veggie oil conversion and General discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron