Diesel thru single FPHE or not??

For discussing the modifications needed for diesel vehicles to run with 2 tank veggie oil conversions.

Moderators: SunWizard, coachgeo

Diesel thru single FPHE or not??

Postby Radrick » Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:47 pm

There has been alot of talk about running diesel and wvo thru the same single FPHE. I am working on my system and have everything layed out and parts purchased but have not decided how I am run my diesel yet. I have two concerns with this idea and I would like to get some feedback from anyone.

One running diesel and wvo thru the same FPHE will increase the volume of the switchover loop and therefore increase the switchover time.

Two I have worked around FPHE for some years and I have concerns that it would be possible for some wvo to stay in one of the corners of the heat exchanger and possibly dislodge at the wrong time entering the IP on some Jan -30f morning causing me big problems.
1995 Chevy K1500 6.5 TD not on WVO yet but soon.
Radrick
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Rochester, MN

Postby Performance Plus WVO » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:54 pm

The biggest concern of mine would be losing the centistroke rating of no 2 "Ultra Low Lubrication oops Sulfur" diesel by heating it to 210 during summer time. Not to mention like you say lost effiency of purge times.
Performance Plus WVO
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 9:18 pm

Postby BMW Fan » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:59 am

I usually have the FPHE in front of my IP pump.
In a 2-tank system my aim is also to have fast changeover times.
The volume of my 20 plate FPHE is less then 200 ml.
So, loss of lubrication on Diesel is nothing I am scared off.
Anyway a solenoid or plain manual valve cutting off the hot water supply could solve this problem.
I think it is unnecessary.
How fats could or would stick in a pocket of the FPHE is not feasible to me or I shall say it never happened.
Switching back to Diesel reduces this risk to zero and that’s what you do on a 2-tank anyway.

BMW Fan

http://www.crawldog.com/klausold/
BMW Fan
 
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:48 am
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Postby Radrick » Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:43 pm

Performance Plus WVO wrote:The biggest concern of mine would be losing the centistroke rating of no 2 "Ultra Low Lubrication oops Sulfur" diesel by heating it to 210 during summer time. Not to mention like you say lost effiency of purge times.


I am not concerned about the lubricity of the diesel at 160f. Here in MN we have 2% bio in all out dino and if I don't think that is enough then I will add a little more. Also it will only be running the dino long enough to get to 160f then I will switch. If I am planning on running on diesel I will turn off the coolant.

I have a DS4 rotary pump and it gets down to -30f here, some times for a week strait. I am believe that to keep from killing my IP I need to heat my dino before switchover at least in the winter. The issue I am having is weather to buy two heat exchangers or just use one for both? How much do you think it will lengthen my purge times??
1995 Chevy K1500 6.5 TD not on WVO yet but soon.
Radrick
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:10 pm
Location: Rochester, MN

Postby 240Volvo » Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:58 pm

I don't think that you need two FPHE. Search the thread about electric heat vs FPHE, Sunwizard gave some btu calculations that will help you decide. He sees cold temps, too. As does bmwfan.
1984 Volvo 240 diesel with a single tank Elsbett conversion: electric fuel filter heater, FPHE, glow plugs, and injectors. Also injector line heaters and block heater, running 20%kero/80%WVO winter blend.
240Volvo
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:34 am
Location: New Jersey

Postby Performance Plus WVO » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:28 pm

Is your pmd relocated? I run a DB2 19 below zero without heating my diesel and have had great luck. I am shure you are concerned about the rotor siezing to the barrel and shearing your inputshaft on the Ip. The way I keep mine safe is to switch the WVO @ 125 and let it warm up to the 175 normally takes about 3 mins after I switch. The block is already warm and I am not concerned about coking the injector tips at that temp for such a short duration. You have an uphill battle with the temps you will run with that pump in paticular. Good luck. On a side note 200 mils is not a accurate purge amount unless you have a 100% effecient system. If you do let me know cause I want to buy one. By the time you purge the WVO for -30 you would burn another 1-1.5 gallons of diesel or 5 to 7.5 bucks not bad if you drove 1200 miles without stopping but who does that routinely. You can cut the purge a little short and hope it starts the next day but have your hair dryer ready and tell the wife you might have to use her car until spring.
Performance Plus WVO
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 9:18 pm

Postby jburke » Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:01 am

"How much do you think it will lengthen my purge times??"

I have a stock dual tank F-250 sharing a FPHE before the shared fuel filter.
I'd have the longest switch times I think you could expect with a shared f.f., FPHE, and lift pump and fuel line back to the valves. I guess the total volume would be about 3 cups or 750 ml. As best I can tell, switchover takes 3 minutes or 3 miles on the highway. It's really not a big deal. I just switch 3 miles before I reach my destination. When cold I switch as soon as the engine reaches 190*F cause measurements I took showed it took about 3 minutes for the warm fuel to totally warm a cold ip. IP temp. lagged engine temp. by 3 minutes, approx. So by the time hot wvo hits the ip, the ip is already at 190*F.

The shortest trip I could take on wvo would be 9 miles:
3 miles to warmup - switch to wvo at 3.0 miles
3 miles on diesel, waiting for wvo - switch back to diesel at 6.0 miles
3 miles on wvo, fuel system purged of wvo by 9.0 miles.
jburke
 
Posts: 69
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:07 am

Postby BMW Fan » Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:57 am

Performance Plus WVO wrote: On a side note 200 mils is not a accurate purge amount unless you have a 100% effecient system.


I clearly stated :

The volume of my 20 plate FPHE is less then 200 ml.

BMW Fan

http://www.crawldog.com/klausold/
BMW Fan
 
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:48 am
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Postby hheynow » Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:59 pm

My rear tank runs through my FPHE at 160*F. Added purge time because of it has never been a concern to me nor has running rear fuel warm. It's always at least B50 so the lubricity loss of #2 is of no concern. I've run rear fuel cold as well since my conversion but prefer it warm. My true purge is about two miles but I'm always on the cautious side.
FOR SALE: 1997 Ford F-350 7.3L PSD - Plant Drive kit
1984 Mercedes Euro 300D NA - Custom two tank
Running on used plant oil and biodiesel since May 2006
hheynow
 
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:10 pm
Location: California

Postby Performance Plus WVO » Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:06 pm

The system I run takes approximately 10 minutes to get an acceptable temp. I drive 28 miles one way into town and average during the summer 68 MPG per bought gallon of diesel. I run one heat exchanger "Marine Transmission Cooler" I have seperate fuel filters for each side respectively. My purge is a little lengthy due to the fact I want some diesel returned to the WVO suction line to act as a buffer against IP shock.
Performance Plus WVO
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 9:18 pm

Postby BMW Fan » Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:37 am

The original question was „ switchover “ from one fuel to the other.

That solely depends how close your 3 or 6 way valves are to the IP.
Now you are talking about purge times which is a different story.
Many different solutions are possible and it seems that some people want
…after lengthy precautions already installed ….an extra parachute.
I never understood why someone running HOH / HIH and eventually a heated filter, wants to purge his veggie lines and filters.

BMW Fan
BMW Fan
 
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:48 am
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Postby chasee » Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:36 am

BMW Fan wrote:I never understood why someone running HOH / HIH and eventually a heated filter, wants to purge his veggie lines and filters.

BMW Fan


Backflushing the filter with D2 can greatly increase filter life. When I first installed my kit, the return loop was T'd in before the WVO filter, so purging did not backflush filter, just line from T to tank. I was getting 1000-1500 miles per filter at most. My processing system is top shelf, you can find my posts about it, so dirty fuel was not the culprit. I called Fleetguard and a guy there said they suspected that WVO was causing a buildup of wax in the filter pores that would not then re-melt. Upon opening up a clogged filter for examination, the filter medium looked brand new, but the pores were obviously clogged.

I suspect that WVO sitting and cooling in the filter causes this reaction to accelerate.

Anyway, upon switching the return T to after the WVO filter, they last forever. I change them every 10K just for the heck of it.
2005 Golf GLS PD-TDI, 5-speed. Grease Car kit installed right off the lot when brand new. Running on WVO about 85% of the time.
chasee
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 8:07 pm

Postby BMW Fan » Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:30 am

[

Backflushing the filter with D2 can greatly increase filter life. When I first installed my kit, the return loop was T'd in before the WVO filter, so purging did not backflush filter, just line from T to tank. I was getting 1000-1500 miles per filter at most. .[/quote]

Backflushing a filter is not a good idea at all. IMHO :)
Why filter the dirt and then release it to the tank , again ?
How does that make sense ?
Instead of the T before the filter you could T in after the filter.
Increases filter life, too.

Most important...you are happy with your results...and that counts.

BMW Fan

http://www.crawldog.com/klausold/
BMW Fan
 
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:48 am
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Postby BMW Fan » Thu Jul 03, 2008 11:32 am

[

Backflushing the filter with D2 can greatly increase filter life. When I first installed my kit, the return loop was T'd in before the WVO filter, so purging did not backflush filter, just line from T to tank. I was getting 1000-1500 miles per filter at most. .[/quote]

Backflushing a filter is not a good idea at all. IMHO :)
Why filter the dirt and then release it to the tank , again ?
How does that make sense ?
Instead of the T before the filter you could T in after the filter.
Increases filter life, too.

Most important...you are happy with your results...and that counts.

BMW Fan

http://www.crawldog.com/klausold/
BMW Fan
 
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:48 am
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Postby chasee » Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:49 pm

Well, all I can say is that my direct real world experience proved that my method is superior to the alternative, in my case anyway.

Since my oil is so completely particulate free, backflushing does not result in pollution to the WVO tank. The filter is really only there to catch any large poly scabs from my copper coil, or free water that might result from condensation in the winter.

But, in a perfect world, I would have a third solenoid. It would switch between two return T's: one before and one after. While operating, return is before filter. While purging, it is after. I may implement this in a few weeks.
2005 Golf GLS PD-TDI, 5-speed. Grease Car kit installed right off the lot when brand new. Running on WVO about 85% of the time.
chasee
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 8:07 pm

Next

Return to 2 Tank veggie oil conversion and General discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron