Following the Sun, TiH questions

For discussing the modifications needed for diesel vehicles to run with 2 tank veggie oil conversions.

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Following the Sun, TiH questions

Postby mortarsprayer » Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:00 am

Hello Listers.
First, I want to say thank you. I have been gathering parts for my conversion as well as a centrifuge for the past few weeks. Many of you have been incredibly helpful.

My plan is to follow SunWizard's conversion very closely. My truck is also a 95 Dodge/Cummins. It looks like a simple and well proven path.

I am wondering if anyone has made enough of the TiH heaters to know the best brands and parts to use?
Can you point me to the best T ? Does Swagelok make a T with hose barbs on two points and thread or compression fitting on the last one?


What is the best 3/8" aluminum tube to use?
Is this one as good as any:
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/p/1633,59 ... -Line.html

We have a good NAPA here, perhaps they have a best choice in stock?

Thank you,
Nolan
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Postby SunWizard » Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:39 pm

Best tube is from my conversion page, on these forums you should read:
SunWizard wrote:Here is a link to a Tube in Hose diagram with part numbers similar to how I did my heated fuel line from the tank to the front. Tubing is www.mcmaster.com 5177K46, inside 5/8 heater hose, same as stock.

Brass Plumbing parts, compression fittings, male hose adapters and galvanized or black steel tees from anyplace, home depot or mcmaster.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Postby John Galt » Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:05 pm

If one is using a FPHE, is TIH really that necessary when insulated TOH is just as effective for less cost?
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Postby VegMeister » Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:59 pm

What does "effective" mean? What does "mean" mean?

No, the heat transfer is not nearly as efficient (in terms of percentage of thermal transfer per foot. So no, HoH is not as effective.


Yes, HoH will get the oil liquid enough to pump in almost any scenario (obviously I'm assuming insulation). So if you have a FPHE, then your system will work in even very cold winter situations (I've run HoH on my 6.5 in -40F). So yes, HoH is effective.


I'm going to stop arguing with myself and ask everyone, what the heck does "effective" mean? I think that if you really look at what we mean, HoH is not as effective as TiH, if the "effect" we are talking about is the effect of warming up vegetable oil.
centralvalleybiodiesel CF
1993 GMC Sierra K2500 6.5L + homebuilt veg kit, OEM glowplug failure (update: rebuilt with a 6.2 block, working fine)
1988 Ford 6.9L OEM dual tank, 90+% veg oil blend.
1989 Ford 7.3L, 80+% veg oil blend.
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Postby leftcoastjeff » Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:37 pm

Sounds like the "beer or wine" question.

I'm going to try TOT, all aluminum with insulation.

Not a chance the two liquids will mix, and easier to service IMHO

I'm sure that any combo of tubes and hoses acheve the same result.
The only differance is temps. (internal and external)

Right?

If it's -40F your gonna need a lot more preheat,
if the temps never go below 70F?.... well, IMHO you may be able to get away with a more simple system.

And...
How much fuel needs to be heated per hour?

Hope I'm not out of line,

LCjeff
'87F-250 stock, minus that pesky water seporator/air inlet, bone stock for now.

Thomas Edison says it best, “Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work”.
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Postby mortarsprayer » Sun Aug 03, 2008 7:03 pm

Hello Jeff,
I decided to go TIH. Both methods are simple to install and I'm as worried about a crack in the suction line as I am about a giant meteor falling on my home. It just isn't worth weighing in the equation. One valuable thing to me is a TIH gives one more way to quickly get the fuel up to temperature. Warm WVO is happy WVO. Anything I can do to ensure the IP has the best possible fuel is a good thing.

The main key is to jump in and do the conversion! Do something now instead of wasting another hundred dollars filling your truck.

I have a rough parts list of my 'Following the Sun' conversion. I will share it with the group once I have the conversion done. If it will help anyone jump in sooner, PM me and I will share what I have.

Best regards.
Nolan
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Postby SunWizard » Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:06 pm

I put the FPHE after the main VO filter, because I don't want the first 5 miles after switchover to be the quart of cold VO from in my filter. From my testing, the filter wrap doesn't get the VO inside it warmed up much during the 5 miles it takes before switchover (ambient <30F.) This means you need a good amount of heat before the filter, the TiH provides this, and a HoH would not, for my climate where it gets -10F sometimes.

This is an example of a few of the interdependent decisions that you really need to think through when you design your rig, if you want it to work when very cold.

I posted a list of parts to my Dodge conversion thread, since I am doing a mercedes now with the same design.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
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Postby mortarsprayer » Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:00 am

Good morning Jeff,
Are you making progress on your conversion?

I have been thinking more about HOH vs. TiH.

There could be a nice compromise for trucks like yours that aren't likely to be in cold weather.
Instead of using rubber lines for the HOH, I wonder if anyone has tried aluminum for all three lines
bundled together. Then the assembly could be easily slid into an insulated sock like you are making.

For this we could use McMaster 5177K46 3/8" aluminum tube for fuel and 5177K53 5/8" for the heat
tubes.
Using aluminum tube could greatly increase the heat transfer while making installation easier.

I have the parts here for my TiH. I think I will also build an aluminum HOH exchanger to get a better feel of how this can work for everyone.



Hopefully others will jump in that are on both sides of this question with suggestions.


Best regards,
Nolan
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Postby mortarsprayer » Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:06 am

Hello Jeff.
One more thought, There really isn't a good reason for including the return line of the hot water in the exchanger HOH exchanger. It would be even easier wrapping the aluminum fuel tube with the single aluminum hot water line going towards the tank.

Best regards,
Nolan
mortarsprayer
 
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 7:11 am


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