Diesel Lubricity Additive Study SVO Biodiesel Results

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Diesel Lubricity Additive Study SVO Biodiesel Results

Postby SunWizard » Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:51 pm

Lubricity of your fuel is important to extend the life of your IP (injection pump) and injectors.

Here is a good study of lubricity additives to diesel fuels. 2% Biodiesel came out the best by far. They didn't test SVO, but see below, its even better than Biodiesel.

One point I didn't know was: "There have been many documented cases of randomly tested samples of diesel fuel. These tests prove that often times the fuel we purchase is not adequately treated and may therefore contribute to accelerated wear of our fuel delivery systems. " This is referring to the additives required for ULSD to meet the standards.

It also was surprising that many of the additives being sold actually made lubricity worse!

There have been numerous studies showing that WVO lubricity is better than anything available, including Biodiesel, mineral, and synthetic oils. Here is a study that shows dramatic 45%-57% reduced wear results in a TDI with canola (they call COD) added:
http://www.ethosfr.com/pdfs/Lubricity_Canola.pdf
It also confirms the good lubricity of Biodiesel (they call CME). And it confirms that much of the diesel fuel available doesn't meet lubricity standards. They show good lubricity is restored with as little as 0.1% canola added.

Here is a page at machinerylubrication.com that says: "vegetable oils can have excellent lubricity, far superior to that of mineral oil. Lubricity is so potent that in some applications, such as tractor transmissions, friction materials need to be added to reduce clutch slippage."

The lubricity of Biodiesel and WVO are both very good, and reportedly better than any other mineral or synthetic oil. Here is a good article if you want to see the chemistry of why:
http://www.manufacturingcenter.com/tooling/archives/1202/1202oil.asp
which says:
These molecules are long, heavy, and dipolar in nature; that is, the ends of the molecules have opposing electrical charges.

The “polar heads” of the molecules have a great chemical affinity for metal surfaces and attach themselves to the metal like little magnets.

Both Biodiesel and SVO are dipolar is why they are so good. Other oils are non-polar and form a random alignment along a metal surface. The higher viscosity of WVO probably accounts for the slightly better lubricity than Biodiesel.

That article reports a 15x increase in tool life (due to lubricity of SVO) in tapping steel parts compared to mineral oils.
Last edited by SunWizard on Fri Oct 08, 2010 8:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby SunWizard » Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:54 pm

Here is another lubricity study done by the military since they are using the GM diesels in many of their vehicles with rotary IPs and they have also reported lubricity problems:

http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/reportsdatabase/repo...20000501_gen-308.pdf

And here is another lubricity study done with straight soy VO and B100 at 1%, showing that both are very good (bio was slightly better in this report.) 0.25% soy was not enough.

With high erucic rapeseed, 0.2% was enough.

http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/reportsdatabase/repo...19980201_gen-070.pdf

This report also confirms that many diesel samples did not meet lubricity standards, even before ULSD was introduced which has far worse lubricity.

And here is a study where they really got into the chemistry of what it is in b100 that gives the lubricity, and they determined it is polar compounds in SVO (FFA and monoacyglycerols) which are considered contaminants in b100 and are limited. This also explains why most VO would be slightly better than b100 made from the same VO. But either one is far better than any other additive to increase lubricity.

http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/reportsdatabase/repo...20050218_gen-357.pdf
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Postby Welder » Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:02 am

Thanks for gathering this info Sun.

I've been adding a few splashes of virgin canola to my diesel until I can get my conversion kit together. Lately I've also been either adding local B100 or some of both. What I've always wondered was whether or not the stuff mixes in properly and if it does, will it seperate back out from something like weather changes, or from sitting overnight.

I know many blenders say they've tested their blends to determine whether they seperate or not, but I can't see how they could accurrately know for sure. I mean, I wonder if any of the color carrying compounds from either fluid are able to transfer to the other fluid thereby rendering visual testing to be inaccurrate.

Also, I just dump a 1/2 gallon of veggie or B100 into my tank before every fill up, then top up with ULSD (sorry, I know that's tacky here). Does regular driving mix the fluids adequately, or do I need to premix the stuff? I've heard both answers.

John G, (or anyone else) do you have any answers here?
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Postby David » Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:01 am

Welder wrote:
I know many blenders say they've tested their blends to determine whether they seperate or not, but I can't see how they could accurrately know for sure. .


When you mix the two in a glass jar and have it sitting on a shelf unmoved for over a year and there are no signs of them separating in that time, I reckon its a pretty safe bet they don't.

While I'm sure some exotic compounds may appear to mix in colour but don't at a component level, I have never heard of any thing of " backyard" commonality doing the same.

The veg fuel commounity is overly pedantic and cautious about everything. People are so busy virtually inventing problems and coming up with solutions to things that no one has ever experienced, I am also sure it there were problems with separation in blending, it would be the most widely know thing about veg fuels. Given the popularity of some things that are so commented on but their actual occourance is completely absent of any evidence of actually occouring in reality, something that did happen would be on every veg related web page.


Welder wrote:Also, I just dump a 1/2 gallon of veggie or B100 into my tank before every fill up, then top up with ULSD (sorry, I know that's tacky here). Does regular driving mix the fluids adequately, or do I need to premix the stuff? I've heard both answers.


If you put the veg in before the Dino, I'm more than sure the splashing of the dino going into the tank would mix it sufficiently and a few miles driving would take care of any minuscule amount that didn't. :D
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Postby Welder » Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:19 am

Hi DCS.

Coking happens. I think it was either the"D" word or Frybrid who posted either the pics, or links to them on infopoop. Yes, I agree that it likely doesn't happen as much as some people make a living claiming it to, but it does happen sometimes.

I think it happens when guys don't do any research at all, then take inadequate SVO measures in cold climates. Not much of a problem for you down under though, right mate?.

Anyway, I wasn't inventing problems, I just have no experience in blending (or SVO for that matter) and while I trust some guys technical methods (Sunwizard, Crossbones etc), I don't trust other guys tech methods (D word).

As I typed out the post expressing concern over colour bleed posing as adequate stability, I knew someone would point out the relative simplicity of the chemical compounds referred to and claim them to form stable mixtures. That may be true to. Since I don't KNOW if there are any colorants added to regular pump diesel, I didn't assume anything.

Some fuels are dyed (tax exempt farm fuel etc), but considering the sheer volume of regular ULSD pumped daily, I'd think it would be an expensive PITA to dye regular ULSD so it's likely true to it's natural color. That means I think your test is likely accurrate.

Looking for problems where none exist and expressing a concern over something I have no direct knowledge of are two different things. I just don't assume stuff, that's all.

If you think I'm being unreasonably fearful, please consider that until recently, it was common "knowledge" that fluid driven centrifuges didn't dewater WVO adequately. This was knowledge "proven" by a retired engineer that happens to be the industrys foremost authority on SVO tech (or not).
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Postby SunWizard » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:49 am

Blending in your tank its hard to ensure proper mixing before you drive your vehicle. At your small VO% it may not matter, but at higher % it matters a lot.

I made a post about my blending station here:
http://www.burnveg.com/forum/about21.html

Once it is well mixed it stays well mixed in my tests. Try some tests of your own in clear jars. Even if some of the coloring of D2 got in the VO, and then it separated, you would still be able to do tell, because there would be a much thicker viscosity layer at the bottom.
Last edited by SunWizard on Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby John Galt » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:03 am

The clear components stay mixed, the PHO and fats drop out of the mix when the temperature falls.

I mix to 50-50 then final filter cold, leaving any fats or PHO in the bottom of the mix barrel. The filtered 50-50 mix is added to the tank then pump ULSD added for the %VO mix desired.
Last edited by John Galt on Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby 240Volvo » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:36 pm

I mix in a 5 gallon container, a gallon of each at a time, shaking vigorously after each pour. Justing putting into the tank is no guarantee of blending, in my opinion. When I pour from the container, it has the consistency of kerosene, not oil. I have confidence that it stays blended after that, and have never had it clog or fail to start in cold weather.
1984 Volvo 240 diesel with a single tank Elsbett conversion: electric fuel filter heater, FPHE, glow plugs, and injectors. Also injector line heaters and block heater, running 20%kero/80%WVO winter blend.
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Postby Welder » Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:19 pm

SunWizard wrote:Blending in your tank its hard to ensure proper mixing before you drive your vehicle. At your small WVO% it may not matter, but at higher % it matters a lot.

I made a post about my blending station here:
http://www.burnveg.com/forum/about21.html

Once it is well mixed it stays well mixed in my tests. Try some tests of your own in clear jars. Even if some of the coloring of Diesel got in the WVO, and then it separated, you would still be able to do tell, because there would be a much thicker viscosity layer at the bottom.


There you go! That's exactly the type of simple science that would verify a stable mixture. As I said, I have no exact info on whether any dies are added to ULSD or whether maybe other additives like detergents may be responsible for ULSD color. If ULSD is perfectly transparent and entirely lacking color before detergents, preservatives, or other additives are added, then they may weep color. Something like a colorful detergent would likely spread itself from the colorless ULSD base and spread through a WVO/diesel mix.

Doing lubricity tests on samples from top and bottom of blends that had been sitting for awhile through temp changes would be a great way to more accurately prove the stability of these kinds of blends.

Thanks for that Sun.
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Postby Welder » Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:23 pm

John Galt wrote:The clear components stay mixed, the PHO and fats drop out of the mix when the temperature falls.

I mix to 50-50 then final filter cold, leaving any fats or PHO in the bottom of the mix barrel. The filtered 50-50 mix is added to the tank then pump ULSD added for the %VO mix desired.


Thanks for replying here John. You are almost the patron saint of diesel biofuel blending, so you definately know your stuff there. I won't even ask how you know the goop drops out. It's obvious.
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Postby Welder » Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:29 pm

240Volvo wrote:I mix in a 5 gallon container, a gallon of each at a time, shaking vigorously after each pour. Justing putting into the tank is no guarantee of blending, in my opinion. When I pour from the container, it has the consistency of kerosene, not oil. I have confidence that it stays blended after that, and have never had it clog or fail to start in cold weather.


That's the kind of effort that I'm too lazy to repeatedly put into fuelling up. I'd like to build a self mixing blend tank with a 12Volt mixing pump, or internal propeller to get/keep the fluids blended.

Dump it in, and flip the switch. 5 minutes later, there's well blended fuel. Any long periods of sitting, or wide temp swings, and another 5 minutes on the mixer and I could drive away confidently.
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Postby David » Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:57 pm

Welder,

I was not saying you were inventing problems, I clearly stated it was a trait of the veg oil community at large and I stand by that statement 100%.
I have certainly been scared by reading of the gloom and doom that is spread like gospel amongst the pages of veg oil forums. When you read something 20 times, how can it not play on the back of your mind even if you suspect it may not be right? Even now I read gloom and doom and it gives me a moment of anxiousness untill I realise I have been doing exactly what they are saying not to, and have have been for much longer than the cautionary tale insists my engine would be long gone to the great highway in the sky.

Like you, I don't assume things or take the word of others automatically when what they are saying doesn't seem as cut and dried as suggested or appears to have room to work differently under different circumstances.

This is why I often go right ahead and test for myself what is not supposed to work. The thing is, so far I can't remember testing one thing that proved the given theories right. Most of the "rules" come from a time when veg was in its infancy and have never been updated with the learning that has taken place since or under totally different conditions to what I operate my vehicle under. I run Veg through the stock standard fuel lines on my car, I run fat in winter ( through those same lines) in an unheated system (other than the HE under the Bonnet,) I have run different blend percentages which I read just yesterday people telling others won't work and will in fact kill their engine, Which are all things which if I believed everything I read, I cannot do amongst a whole bunch of other No-no's.

I understand not everyone may be able to do what I do in their climate and with their vehicle. The thing is, why can't the people preaching these " rules" have the same understanding of other peoples circumstances and realise what they are ften scare mongering people with is not a hard and fast recipe for mechanical death for everyone?

There was a guy from Hawaii on the local oz forum a while back whom seemed hell bent on rigging his merc to be perfectly reliable on an antarctic expedition and start up as soon as he looked at the key, let alone actually turn it! He thought unless he had a heated fuel system including the fuel tank, injector line heaters, heated filter, coolant powered HE's..... The works, he was going to have all sorts of problems and trouble running NEW oil that would kill his car in no time! No amount of people could tell him in his climate this was un-nessacary, the guy was brainwashed that he had to have this on his car to " avoid problems and be on the safe side".

I don't know if your the type of person to find out how things apply to you directly welder, or just go by what you are told but if you do try some practical tests to see how things work for yourself, I'm sure you will find much of what you are led to believe is far from accurate as well. That is of course if you can get round the first fear parroted about with veg and that is whenever you don't stricktly abide by the rules of veg that you will destroy the engine in your ( typically 10, 20, 30, yo) vehicle instantly. Most mistakes you could make entail little more than cleaning out the system and starting again.

As for the in tank blending, the specific question that was asked was if putting 1/2 gal ( less than 2L) of veg into the tank and filling it with Dino would be OK. I stand by my answer of yes.
If you were asking if you put 25L of veg in and filled the tank, my answer would have been different. Fuel tanks are filled with baffles to stop sloshing and restrict and rapid fuel movement which is exactly what you want to enable any mixing.

A couple of liters of veg encountering 80-100L of dino being introduced in to the same tank is going to be mixed with no problem. The two aren't resistive to mixing, you just have to get over the different viscosity of the heavier veg. as the tank would presumably have some fuel in it when it was introduced, it will be thinned from there and the the rest is just for the most part diluting that mix. Not a big ask.

For mixing higher percentages, I wholeheartedly agree that pre mixing is the way to go and virtually essential. For my blends, I put the thinning agent in a 25L cubee ( ours are thick HDPE you can sit on empty) add the oil, Pick it up and shake the hell out of it for a minute. I usually do 6-8 at a time and give them another good shake before I put them in the car.

For the early months of last winter I ran a 50-50 blend of Bio and WVO, this winter I want to try a blend of mixed aircraft fuel ( jet and avgas, proportions unknown) and see how that goes.

If you wanted to do them in a drum, A cheap marine Bilge Pump sitting on the bottom with a hose just going to the top of the barrel run for 5 min would mix any blend well and truly I think.
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Cold blends

Postby John Galt » Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:55 pm

I'm lucky to live in a natural 'deepfreeze', and I've got a long row of different blends in sample jars on a shelf out in the porch.

This afternoon it's warmed up to about 40°F and there is still a layer of PHO/fat in the bottom 1/8th of the summer blend 50-50 samples which always contain some PHO/fat due to warm weather processing.
The winter blend 50-50 sample is totally clear, and remains clear to about -8°F where it clouds then gells at about -10°F. The oil is recycled canola 5µ clean and dry.

Tank mixing, or 'splash blending' works best with both the VO and the diesel at the same temperature and in low percents of less than 10% VO. The VO can be warmer than the diesel, but not colder. Cold VO can sink to the bottom of the tank and not mix completely. Adding one or two litres/quarts of clear canola VO to a tank of diesel improves fuel lubricity, especially with winter #1 fuel. It's an inexpensive fuel additive.
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Postby Welder » Tue Mar 11, 2008 6:00 am

Thanks for replying David. No harm done.

Yes, experience will help. I'm just trying to sort through all the supposed "facts" of diesel biofuels and also play the devils advocate a little too. If it sounds like I'm a total coward, please understand that I'm only trying to avoid expensive damage.

I used to think blending was stupid or hokey, but now I think it will be a good long term option to using biodiesel as start/stop fuel in my 2 tank system (when I finally get around to building it).

The more I think about blending, the more I think I need to have a self mixing blend tank as my start/stop fuel tank. When I say self mixing, I mean a tank that uses more than just driving motion to achive a reasonably stable blend. I'm really not interested in hand mixing jerry cans of ULSD with WVO or virgin canola.

For an on-board blending tank, would it make better sense to use a mechanical stirring device, or just a pump? Maybe a pump and a venturi like the bio brewers use eh??
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Postby David » Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:19 am

First thing I would ask is why do you feel a need for an onboard blending tank? Do you refuel away from home a lot? If you do you may also need an onboard oil collection, filtering and drying setup! :mrgreen:

I, like I think most people, just buy their Dino or Bio in drums and take it home where they have their oil supply. It can be dead simple as I do it such as measuring qtys of blending agent into a drum then filling it with WVO and manually shaking it, or, making an automated measuring system that adds the oil and mixes it for you as well.

To go to a very simple automated step, I can't see why you would need anything more than I suggested than a cheap bilge pump in a drum. Measure the Qty of one part of the blend, top off with the other and run the pump a short while. Done!

I now run mainly a 2 tank setup, but I find I use little less blending agent ( in my case BioDiesel or Petrol) than what I did when I blended. Often I use a high blend of petrol as start up fuel when I run short of Bio. I think at times I use more "startup" fuel component than what I did when I blended for the short trips round town and the city. It's only the weekend trips where I often don't change back because I'm only at a soccer game for 90 min or so before heading else where again and the longer trips to the city outskirts or country that make 2 tanking any more economical that Blending.

Having got on to a source of free aircraft fuel recently, I'm planning on running both tanks on blend this winter as the journeys are generally shorter and the use of the start fuel is longer.

When I was blending and intending to go to 2 tank, I fitted a HE to my car which I made myself. I figured that my blend at the time was 90% oil do heating it to thin it must have benefits the same as when running straight veg. I was right. The HE added notable performance and a good deal of mental comfort as well. Using cubees for fuel tanks, if we were going on a longer trip, I'd warm the car in the driveway and remove the tank of blend and replace it with straight oil. Often at the destination I wouldn't bother flushing with the blend fuel, I'd start on oil figuring the few infrequent times I would do this wasn't going to kill anything. If the engine was too cold for a straight oil start, a shot of methanol down the intake soon had it Warming up as normal.

Not the way I would do it forever but for experimenting and testing, it was a good no cost way to learn a lot for a tiny bit of extra effort.

I think welder with the amount of time you have spent reading and asking questions, you are well and truly informed enough now to start the real learning first had and actually run your vehicle using veg in one form or another and stop procrastinating any longer.
There are no deadly hidden pitfalls you aren't aware of by now so time to jump in I reckon. :mrgreen:
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