Whats the difference water in VO and water/meth injection

Single Tank WVO systems and blending SVO WVO to thin it.

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Whats the difference water in VO and water/meth injection

Postby mazdaparts » Wed Aug 20, 2008 6:13 pm

Whats the difference between a very small amount water shown in a HPT and water/meth injection? I think I know the answer after researching for a few hours, but if I am wrong please correct me. Because at first I was thinking it was very similar and if diesels work with water/meth injection without adverse effects what difference would a small amount of water in the VO matter make.

Here is what I came up with. Water/meth injection in the CAC pipe or manifold helps to reduce the air temp of the compressed air. It does this by vaporizing the water through the nozzle and when the water hits the hot air it changes from a liquid droplet to a gas (steam). Since liquid water can't compress but gas (steam) can very little if any damage occurs. But water in VO is injected with the fuel and the damage to the injectors is possible. Right?
2002 F250 Powerstroke Crew Cab
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Postby SunWizard » Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:45 pm

Correct. And it can damage your IP.
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Postby 240Volvo » Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:26 pm

There is a big difference between water running through the fuel system and water running through the air intake system. The extremely high pressure within the IP causes cavitation of the surfaces within the IP (something like sandblasting as I recall), and the injectors themselves are also damaged by water. Within the combustion chamber, which is where the intake manifold injected water would be put under pressure and heated, there is no such danger, and some benefit, apparently.
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Postby David » Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:46 pm

I believe that a small percentage of water in the fuel ( oil) will not only cause no damage but would in fact be beneficial.

I don't know what that amount would be and if I did i would have no practical , easy way to measure it. As such, I remove all the water I can from my oil by drying it.

The inlet manifold in my car ( which I am sure would be different to a current model car) is just aluminum and has nothing in it that could be damaged by water unlike the IP on any diesel.

I put a WI system on my car to stop the over hyped coking problem and to clean out any build up that was there. I am more than confident the water has done this very successfuly.
As a welcome side effect, adding 40-50% methanol or alcohol to the water also gives a nice performance boost ands seems to have additional cleaning properties.
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Water injection verse water blend

Postby mixer » Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:01 am

Hello mazdaparts, while it is possible that water in the fuel can cause damage to the IP, I am not sure yet whether this is true. On the other hand I am aware of some research into blending water into the diesel fuel improving performance and mileage. Apparently acetone will force a small amount of water to blend with various oils and fuels, such as WVO. Acetone also has a reputation for removing carbon from the valves, rings and injectors, as well as reducing emissions.
Advocating blending 5-30% gasoline with WVO in the tank from the pump is far less dangerous than blending a few ounces of two-stroke oil into a can of gasoline for a lawnmower.
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Postby SunWizard » Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:52 pm

I looked at your sources of info and none of them are very scientific. I wouldn't believe any of those acetone claims without some science. Since this is off topic of this thread I started a new thread here:
http://www.burnveg.com/forum/about403.html
Last edited by SunWizard on Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby mixelpix » Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:59 pm

David,

I agree with you. Considering that

1) our cast iron Benz IDI's have no stock water filter and

2) the proclivity for incidence of water condensation in every conventional or alternative vented diesel fuel tank with low frequecies of turnover, or which are kept regularly below 3/4 full.

I would say most owners of three decade old diesels are doing water injection already. If they suffer cladosporium resinae, they may very well be invoking meth/water injection :lol:


--------------------------------------------------------------


Jeffrey,

The acetone will likely evaporate if it is expected to sit in a properly vented diesel fuel tank for much more than ten minutes.

Please see this critical analysis and alternative theorizing of a "dieseling acetone in vegetable oil" hypothesis.

Best,
-Patrick
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Postby bio_cowboy » Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:48 pm

mixelpix wrote:Jeffrey,

The acetone will likely evaporate if it is expected to sit in a properly vented diesel fuel tank for much more than ten minutes.

Please see this critical analysis and alternative theorizing of a "dieseling acetone in vegetable oil" hypothesis.
I am sorry Patrick but you clearly have no clue, and you have no background in chemistry. If on the other hand you had run a petroleum fractionating column, as I have in the research lab, then you would know that even after distillation, the tar residues will still contain significant quantities of light petroleum volatiles including methane gas. Thus, to claim that all of the acetone in a fuel tank is going to evaporate in minutes is groundless.

On the other hand it is quite reasonable to believe that significant quantities of light volatiles, such as naptha in gasoline, and acetone as an additive in gasoline, will remain in solution for weeks, if not months, especially in a "vented" gas tank, which these days allows for a slight positive pressure to build up in the tank to preserve such volatiles, if the gas cap is in good working order. If this were not true, then gasoline left in the fuel tank for even a day would all evaporate, but we know it does not.
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Postby coachgeo » Fri Sep 11, 2009 5:48 pm

janjakk wrote:i think using water filter is a perfect idea..

read up on the subject of diesel fuel /water filters. The water trapping paper element type and some others are suspect to NOT be of much value when used with Veg.
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