Simple SVO drip into woodstove works good

Space Heating with SVO WVO Vegetable Oil Biofuel.

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Postby coachgeo » Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:18 pm

Is the ramp pointed at your air holes? AKA they face each other? Or is the air hole ..... (air hole LOL, don't read that too fast).... is the air hole perpindicular to the ramp.
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Postby SunWizard » Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:16 am

Holes are at the lower end of the ramp, so the air and flames blow up the length of it.

My ramp burner has been going for 7 days now, and its burning with no visible smoke out the chimney. It also makes no deposits on the bowl, and little brown balls that can be easily brushed off the ramp.

My old ramp was starting to sag due to high heat, so I made a new ramp out of U channel sheet metal, 2" wide with 1" high sides. still 6" long. This works even better, since the sides collect heat from the hottest part of the flame, and it also prevents splatter of the vaporizing drops exploding. The ramp is very low slope, about 1/4-1/2" drop across the 6" length, and I experimented with many slopes. Having the flames shooting only in one direction across the bowl allows bigger flames to have more contact with the ramp, and allows faster airflow which makes it burn cleaner, it makes a roaring sound like it has fan forced air by having the intake all going through 6 - 1/2" holes in one side.

The ring of small holes is still in the bowl but rarely gets any flames there except at startup. Making the ramp out of polished stainless like the bowls are would be even better, it might not get any deposits then.

The bottom and sides of the stove are solid and firebrick lined. The bowl is sitting on about 2" of ashes which I kept in the firebox to allow easy adjustments of the bowl height and tilt. The tilt is important for the ramp to work best. The tilt and length of ramp would need to be optimized for the drip rate. My 6" ramp is good for between 1 pint and 1 quart per hour drip rates. 1 qt/hr is about where it changes from a drip into a steady stream, so I have a good visual indicator of setting. Higher than this, and some runs off the ramp into the bowl and burns much dirtier.

This has been great, no flameouts even in high wind, and it often runs all day without having to mess with it. Much nicer than having to keep watching and stoking wood.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
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Postby coachgeo » Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:27 pm

This kinda baffles me.

Ramped oil is vaproizing and igniting...... I got that.

So what keeps the ramp hot enough from underneath to cause the oil to vaporize there since the oil (vapors) is mostly all burning away off the ramp and none to little ignites in the bowl below it?

I know.... sounds stupid.... I guess the ignited vapor flame's heat has enough umph down at the bottom of the flame; near the ramp, to keep the ramp hot. It is my understanding that the strongest heat of the flame is much further up in it's flame.

For example... say the hot spot of a given flame is 200 degree's. And its heat wants to travel upward (heat rises). So how hot is the bottom of the flame compared to the hotspot? 10% less or 50% less orrr??? and with all the heat traveling upward away from the ramp??

Obviously.... however the physics of the heat path works.... its hot enough to keep this setup's ramp at the needed temps.... Im just curious about the science behind it.
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Postby SunWizard » Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:30 pm

The flame is turbulent and touching the ramp while going horizontally across it, and its very hot so the metal gets hot from radiated heat. Its so white hot it hurts to look at it. The metal sides on the U shaped ramp are right in the flames and collect heat as well.
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Postby John Galt » Sun Dec 28, 2008 9:27 pm

Can you post any pics of this?
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Postby SunWizard » Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:44 pm

I tried taking pics and you can't see it well enough. With flames you can't see the bowl/ramp because they are so bright, without flame and the bowl and ramp are so black you can't see it. I need to take the ramp out of the bowl for a pic but I have been using it non stop, and then you still can't see the main trick: how the air blows up the ramp.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
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81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Postby coachgeo » Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:03 am

SunWizard wrote:I tried taking pics and you can't see it well enough. .....
Try looking at it thru gas welders goggles, and/or welders helmet? If that works maybe you can digital photograph thru the welders lens?
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Postby John Galt » Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:15 am

SunWizard wrote:I tried taking pics and you can't see it well enough. With flames you can't see the bowl/ramp because they are so bright, without flame and the bowl and ramp are so black you can't see it. I need to take the ramp out of the bowl for a pic but I have been using it non stop, and then you still can't see the main trick: how the air blows up the ramp.


Can you take a pic of the set-up without the flames. If one could see how the components are assembled, it wouldn't take much to imagine the flame you've described. It's the assembly of components in relation to the firebox and drip feed that's difficult to visualize.
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Postby SunWizard » Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:19 am

Here is the bowl with ramp in it, air comes in at the upper right:
Image

Here is the flame, air comes in at the right. You can't see the ramp or bowl, the flame you see is about 12" long and is the part outside the bowl.
Image
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Postby coachgeo » Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:47 am

am I correct in that your ramp is horizontal in the bowl.... but you tilt the whole thing in the fire box by the way you sit it in the old pile of ashes that support it in the bottom of the box?
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Postby SunWizard » Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:02 pm

coachgeo wrote:am I correct in that your ramp is horizontal in the bowl.... but you tilt the whole thing in the fire box by the way you sit it in the old pile of ashes that support it in the bottom of the box?

No, the ramp is tilted about 1/4-1/2" in the bowl, and gets fine adjustments in the ashes. Its such a small amount you could do all the tilt with the ashes, but I knew it needs some tilt always.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Postby SunWizard » Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:26 pm

Here are my operating steps now:

When I start on PHO:
1. I burn wood for 15 minutes to melt the gallon thats in the pot on the stove top.

2. I open the needle valve, let the SVO drip for about 30 secs, squirt a small amount of kerosene into the bowl, close the door and the bowl with SVO + kerosene blend lights up within a few seconds. It takes about a minute for the burning SVO in the bowl to get the ramp hot enough that the blowtorch effect starts. Thats it.

When I start with liquid SVO, step 2 only, and I drop a small piece of burning paper into the bowl to light it.
Last edited by SunWizard on Tue Oct 12, 2010 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
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Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Postby knotman » Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:59 pm

This setup reminds me of a description I read in a U.S. military survival manual in the 1960s. It said to arrange a small metal dish where it could be heated red hot in a fire, and make two metal tubes or channels, one to drip oil and one to drip water, onto the red-hot metal. The water helps the oil to vaporize because water expands about 1600 times when it turns to steam.
A friend and I tried this in a fireplace; we made channels out of some tin cans. Each drop of water exploded into steam when it hit the metal. Pretty soon we had to stop because it got so hot we couldn't stay near it. It doesn't sound like you're having any trouble getting the oil to vaporize, so the water might not be worth bothering with. But, having read a lot of your posts, SunWizard, I bet you can't resist trying this....
Thanks for all your R&D. I plan to follow your design when I get ready to convert my '97 Dodge pickup to run on WVO.
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Postby coachgeo » Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:00 pm

knotman wrote:... two metal tubes or channels, one to drip oil and one to drip water, onto the red-hot metal. ...
Well SMACK up aside the head.

That's almost like a DUHHHH why in hell didn't I/we/somebody that lurks in the WVO world think of this earlier.

Wonder if the steam acts like combustion enhancer from H and O??

Wonder if it helps clean things to???

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Postby coachgeo » Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:11 am

Did alot of reading today about babington burners.

Wonder if your ramp is creating a simular affect. The oil thins as it rolls downard getting closer to a film allowing it auto ignite easier with good air coming in downstream of it.

Now.... what if you introduced a puff of air thru a tiny hole like a babington near the end of that ramp.... hmmmmm would that make it a Rampington?
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