Running WVO with a chip

For discussing the modifications needed for diesel vehicles to run with 2 tank veggie oil conversions.

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Running WVO with a chip

Postby hheynow » Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:57 am

This has been discussed over there but I'd like some new insight on the question of running WVO with a chip. I'd like some information on the relationship between running vegoil (cetane 35-45 depending on the type of oil) with a lower cetane number than #2 (47-48)or bioD (55), diesel injection timing and the advanced timing a chip is designed to control plus the added fuel. I spoke to Jody Tipton of DP Tuner about this and his answer was that running WVO with a chip is fine. With his extensive experience with burning tunes on #2 comes his limited knowledge of WVO. He said that in the past he has tuned Powerstrokes on #2 then after switching to WVO he saw no change in performance but he admitted that obviously he is unable to see the combustion chamber. Duh!
FOR SALE: 1997 Ford F-350 7.3L PSD - Plant Drive kit
1984 Mercedes Euro 300D NA - Custom two tank
Running on used plant oil and biodiesel since May 2006
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Postby SunWizard » Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:03 pm

The chip is probably fine as long as you aren't smoking more than a second on hard acceleration. That is a sign there is unburned fuel, which is what causes troubles. The amount of trouble depends on what vehicle you have and how worn it is. I just posted this in the single tank section but it applies to overfueling a 2 tank rig:
...unburned VO gets on the cylinder walls during cold starts, (signaled by smoking) and gets scraped off by the piston rings. Some can get past the rings since they don't seal well at startup, especially on old worn out engines. And this can put coke (hard black deposits) on the rings, scoring the cylinder wall and leading to mass destruction of the engine. Even if it never gets to that point, VO getting past the rings can contaminate your motor oil, making it thicker due to polymerization, and shortening the engine life due to increased wear. One reason why many VO users get regular tests of their oil at each change using a place like http://www.blackstone-labs.com/standard_analysis.html
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Postby hheynow » Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:16 pm

This is from last month:

RICHARD: Veggie oil or biodiesel -- your F350 handles both with ease, and it apparently does not care whether you switch back and forth between them. The 5 ppm copper we found last time improved to 4 ppm here, which is fine. The other metals all held steady. If we haven't said it before, we'll say it now: this is a very nice engine, and it's showing no signs of slowing down. Bearing wear (copper, lead, tin) looks especially good. No fuel, moisture, or antifreeze found. Silicon was low at 6 ppm, showing no problems at the air filtration system. Looking good."
Blackstone Labs 2/8/08 286K miles & 3K on the lube oil

I only see 30 seconds of faint white smoke upon startup with B99. Never seen any smoke while on WVO. Never idle on WVO. I really wait for my coolant to reach at least 190*F before flipping the switch.

I'd like to get information on the relationship between cetane numbers and a chip's timing advance.
FOR SALE: 1997 Ford F-350 7.3L PSD - Plant Drive kit
1984 Mercedes Euro 300D NA - Custom two tank
Running on used plant oil and biodiesel since May 2006
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Posts: 147
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:10 pm
Location: California

Postby SunWizard » Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:51 pm

Thats a good sign you are doing things right. I don't put much faith in cetane its a hard to determine lab number that varies widely in VO.

I think a better test would be the next time you are at the performance place, put it on the dyno, compare the D2 versus VO numbers for HP and torque. Slightly advanced timing is supposed to be best for VO, and would show up in better dyno numbers. And please report the results here!
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Performance tuning

Postby HoldOnTight » Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:21 pm

I have a reprogrammed computer. If your vo is hot, it will spray as well as
diesel...
My opinion:
As long as you have sufficient air, you will burn that fuel.
I think the key is not to overfuel and use only hot oil only with a hot engine. Good maintenance practices apply, including the use of only DRY oil, although some older MBs and IDI engines are more tolerant due to their design...
What did I forget to list?
Late 99 Ford F-250, Designed and installed at home, 30 kMi on VO. WVO temp at solenoid valve is 185-195+F, winter-summer.
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Diesel World

Postby elvia » Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:58 pm

check out the May issue of Diesel World (yes, the may issue is out already)
there is a great write up on jason crawford and his 490 hp 1999 f250. all on wvo. Also has a dp f5 tuner. He ran a 14.5 quarter mile at the track with it in Houston
Go WVO!
Elvia
2000 F350 XL Utility Bed. Vegistroke V3
Nolatraveler.com
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Postby hheynow » Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:28 am

Yes I admire Jason and his Vegistroke kit BUT let's not forget he blew up his previous engine on WVO. Can't remember the gory details.
FOR SALE: 1997 Ford F-350 7.3L PSD - Plant Drive kit
1984 Mercedes Euro 300D NA - Custom two tank
Running on used plant oil and biodiesel since May 2006
hheynow
 
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:10 pm
Location: California

Postby FlyboyDVIII » Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:09 am

hheynow:

Go to the VegiStroke site and read their experience with chips, I know they run them and you can read of their results there. the only computer I want controling my motors is the one God gave me! :D
93, F250, 7.3, N/A, WVO since 5-06 over 147K so far, 2wd, ext cab, 100 gal. tank, DIY system. 10psi 23A FASS w/ ProComp regulator.

FilterFuge FF60 CF, over 22,300 gal. spun
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Postby Radrick » Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:40 pm

SunWizard wrote:The chip is probably fine as long as you aren't smoking more than a second on hard acceleration. That is a sign there is unburned fuel, which is what causes troubles. The amount of trouble depends on what vehicle you have and how worn it is. I just posted this in the single tank section but it applies to overfueling a 2 tank rig:
...unburned VO gets on the cylinder walls during cold starts, (signaled by smoking) and gets scraped off by the piston rings. Some can get past the rings since they don't seal well at startup, especially on old worn out engines. And this can put coke (hard black deposits) on the rings, scoring the cylinder wall and leading to mass destruction of the engine. Even if it never gets to that point, VO getting past the rings can contaminate your motor oil, making it thicker due to polymerization, and shortening the engine life due to increased wear. One reason why many VO users get regular tests of their oil at each change using a place like http://www.blackstone-labs.com/standard_analysis.html


Sun i agree. I am still working on getting my engine mechanically ready for vo (new injectors, exhaust, ext) but I am planning on running a chip in it. I talked to the perf company i am planning on using and they stated that because of the increase in efficiency with there chip and the lack of smoke they believe that i wouldn't have any increase in coking with there chip. Do to the increase in coking with vo they did recommend that i go the chip that is one step down from the top one. It is recommended for towing and milage and is very good at keeping the egt's down. Exessive fuel is usually the cause of increased egt's so I think this is good advise. Just my $.02 :)
1995 Chevy K1500 6.5 TD not on WVO yet but soon.
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