SunWizard's system on my 1993 Dodge...Help Please

For discussing the modifications needed for diesel vehicles to run with 2 tank veggie oil conversions.

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Postby colonelsanders » Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:44 pm

yes my HoH is insulated, the fuel hose sits in between a send and receive coolant hose and insulated w/foam tubing to the hot fox. the only place i could think it would be cooling would be after the tank valve, and thru the filter valve to the filter.

my FPHE is almost vertical...will it make that much of a difference the way i have it mounted? my temps are good there.

i did another hot pan test of my oil and did notice some bubbles. no poping though, what is acceptable for running the oil as fuel?, (i know you try for none sun) or i should say what amount of bubble will plug my filter? its discouraging because i have run all the oil i was going to use for the trip through the centrifuge for @least 2 hours a 30 gal. batch (30 gallon barrel set up), and still water?!!!
[/quote]
"be the change you want to see in this world"
93' Dodge W250 CTD 4x4 Auto 170+ 2 tank WVO
One ton single wheel rear end
Piston lift pump retro fit

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Postby SunWizard » Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:58 pm

coachgeo wrote:Maybe you posted at the same time so you didnt see that he shows 140-160deg temps of his WVO by his fuel temp gauge.

That temp is after the FPHE. I am talking about temps before the filter which matters greatly to filter flow and ability to handle PHO & fats.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
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Postby SunWizard » Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:04 pm

colonelsanders wrote:my FPHE is almost vertical...will it make that much of a difference the way i have it mounted? my temps are good there.

Doesn't matter as long as you don't have any way for air pockets to get trapped in it.
what is acceptable for running the oil as fuel?

No bubbles.
i should say what amount of bubble will plug my filter?

Any amount will decrease miles on the filter.
its discouraging because i have run all the oil i was going to use for the trip through the centrifuge for @least 2 hours a 30 gal. batch (30 gallon barrel set up), and still water?!!!

If you start with a large amount of water it can take 12 hours. This is why you shouldn't suck from the bottom 6" of any dumpster or barrel.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Postby coachgeo » Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:49 pm

SunWizard wrote:
coachgeo wrote:Maybe you posted at the same time so you didnt see that he shows 140-160deg temps of his WVO by his fuel temp gauge.

That temp is after the FPHE. ....
ahhhh yep temps before FPHE does not show the needed info in this situation. Sounds like he might need something to add heat just before the filter like a small FPHE, homemade HE, or a heater wrap on the filter, or go with TIH?

Don't know till he hopes out at the time it gets slugish and checks temps of things at the filter.
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Postby SunWizard » Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:59 pm

coachgeo wrote:.. or a heater wrap on the filter...

Way too little heat from those.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Postby coachgeo » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:43 am

SunWizard wrote:
coachgeo wrote:.. or a heater wrap on the filter...

Way too little heat from those.
was meaning coolant heater wrap ALA dana linscott or simular. Would think that would be enough since it is not alone but in addition to HOH.
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Postby coachgeo » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:44 am

hmmm... do you have HOH set up in sieries or parallel coolant path?

are you sure their is not an air pocket in the coolant lines.

Maybe get her good and hot and then park her ideling its front end nose bleed high, assuming you have a good collant recovery system that will allow it to burp all the air out. Maybe block the radiator with Cardboard to keep the temps up high while ideling.
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Postby SunWizard » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:39 am

coachgeo wrote:
SunWizard wrote:
coachgeo wrote:.. or a heater wrap on the filter...

Way too little heat from those.
was meaning coolant heater wrap ALA dana linscott or simular. Would think that would be enough since it is not alone but in addition to HOH.

Coolant wraps provide only a tiny amount of heat, I have tested them and reported in this thread and others:
http://www.burnveg.com/forum/viewtopic. ... sc&start=0
Rubber hose is a fairly good insulator.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Postby colonelsanders » Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:03 am

ok thanks for all the responses guys, ill bleed those coolant lines, mine is a parallel path (like in suns diagram, except of course for the hot fox which has an in and out fitting)

ok last question about water in the filter, maybe you already answered but will diesel push water out of the filter if that's whats causing the resistance thus showing a restoration of pressure, or does this sound like a cold vo issue? once there is water in the filter it would remain absorbed in the element right? im beginning to think it may be cooling of the wvo and thats why pressure is restored to the veg filter but only slowly. maybe its both, im just trying to avoid changing filters if i dont have to.
"be the change you want to see in this world"
93' Dodge W250 CTD 4x4 Auto 170+ 2 tank WVO
One ton single wheel rear end
Piston lift pump retro fit

http://panamericantrip.blogspot.com
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Postby SunWizard » Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:33 am

colonelsanders wrote:will diesel push water out of the filter if that's whats causing the resistance thus showing a restoration of pressure

No D2 is thinner and can pass a clogged filter easier. Same thing the hotter your VO.
once there is water in the filter it would remain absorbed in the element right?

Right.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Postby coachgeo » Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:17 pm

SunWizard wrote:....Coolant wraps provide only a tiny amount of heat, I have tested them and reported in this thread and others:....
just to make sure we are on the same page... my point of the filter wrap is only to supplement the rise in heat his HOH is already providing. Your right there is no way it will heat a filter of cold veg that is getting no heat at all. Just wondering if that addional little amount ontop of the HOH would be enough to get thru his filter to the FPHE.

Granted there is better ways like a second small FPHE a vegtherm etc. course he could just replume the FPHE to be before the filter, insulate the filter and lines out of it. Seems that would be good if the distance is short enough from filter to IP to not cool the oil along that path. You guys know the true layout wayyyyy better than I.

Hopefully it just needs something simple. Like they say its most allways something stupid and simple. A burp and a little more insulation may be all he needs.
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Postby SunWizard » Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:29 pm

If he followed my design, he already has a wrapped filter, proving that is not enough with HoH. Putting the filter after the FPHE isn't a good option, since that means you are running on cold VO from the filter for the critical first 5 miles after switchover.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Postby coachgeo » Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:15 pm

SunWizard wrote:... filter after the FPHE isn't a good option, since that means you are running on cold VO from the filter for the critical first 5 miles after switchover.
( :oops: well duhhhhh ... getting out 2x4 and whacking ma self over da head wid it :shock: ).

" ahh yeah... I knew that. uh huh.... I was just testing you". :lol: :roll: :oops: :oops:
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Postby colonelsanders » Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:39 pm

went from Denver, CO to Tuscon, AZ yesterday outside temps not above (50F with wind chill) and here are some more details surrounding this situation: when the engine and veg system is up to temp and i swich my valves to veg, pressure is good for about 2 miles then begins to drop lower and lower. if i stop the truck and get out, pump the primer on the lift pump , while the truck is running still on veg, it restores the pressure (is that bad to do?). or if i just pull over and wait a few minutes pressure slowly restores(sometimes) . its when the engine demands more fuel (above 40mph) or going its going up hill that i see the fastest drop in pressure

i checked all my coolant lines back to the tank and they are HOT. the fuel hose that sit next to those coolant lines are hot also, so dont think its an issue there or @ the hot fox. i put 30 gallons of ultra filtered dewatered wvo in the tank (did a hpt) . i also changed the veg filter just to make sure it was not water logged and the issue resumed as usual.

so the area im left with for cooling/wvo gelling is: the tank valve to the lift pump, lift pump to the filter valve and filter valve to the filter... i think its around 5 or 6 feet of unheated fuel hose and 2 brass valves. im thinking this is the prob. does this sound like a possibility at the outside temps i mentioned? will the veg coming out the engine to the return line be hot?
"be the change you want to see in this world"
93' Dodge W250 CTD 4x4 Auto 170+ 2 tank WVO
One ton single wheel rear end
Piston lift pump retro fit

http://panamericantrip.blogspot.com
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Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:55 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ...again

Postby coachgeo » Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:42 pm

Drain the WVO tank and put some diesel in there.

Drive and see if the issue still exist. If it still does then you may well have an air leak.

Drain that and mix it 50/50? with WVO; put it back in the tank drive it. If it exist again but less... you may have an air leak that only shows up when sucking on a heavier fuel.

Also for evaluation you can put a pusher fuel pump way back by the tank so your pushing fuel therefore no air to get sucked in. Maybe leak out but none sucked in. If you got good drivability restored from this.. this may be another hint you have an air leak. Wherever it leaks out would be a clue where. Have heard it may not allways leak out though. With vacuum it is easier to suck air in thru a tiny leak than it is for a pump to push a liquid out a tiny leak is how that was explained.
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