SunWizard's system on my 1993 Dodge...Help Please

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SunWizard's system on my 1993 Dodge...Help Please

Postby colonelsanders » Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:04 pm

Ok so i have a 1993 dodge, 12 valve, 3/4 ton. I have sunwizard's system in my truck with the exception of a hot fox and a larger tank, everything else is the same. here is a link to pics(http://panamericantrip.blogspot.com/2008/09/photos.html)

about a month after i finished the conversion i started to have loss of power under load, and determined my stock diaphragm lift pump was failing. i replaced it w/ the piston style pump ie link.(http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/ ... hp?t=93722). I foolishly purchased a lift pump from ebay w/o paying close attention to the fact it was for a 8.3 liter engine (mines a 5.9). it was easy to confuse because there are quite a few different piston lift pumps that bolt right on, but have different pressure ratings and volume delivery. anyway i ran this pump on my truck for about 3 weeks before realizing it was far to powerful for the inlet pressure of my VE injector pump(pressure gauge showing 40 psi all the time) i called cummins and ordered the correct part and installed it. everything seemed fine, good pressure on veg (15-18 psi at 60-70mph) for a 6 hour trip into the mountains, then i had a big drop in pressure under load, switched back 2 diesel and pressure restored. I changed the veg filter(thought it might be plugged) then ran on veg for around 50 miles then pressure loss again (down to below 5psi).

ive been trouble shooting this issue and now when i run on veg for a short o time and see a pressure drop it will actually go down into vacuum ( i have a sunpro pressure/boost gauge). when i switch back over to diesel i do not see an immediate restoration of pressure. i should also mention that when my original diaphragm lift pump was failing i noticed a power loss and laboring of the engine, well im not getting that now only a low pressure reading on the gauge...but i have not pushed the truck much past 10psi of vacuum so...

so no restriction at the in of the lift pump, (i took the line off the valve and ran diesel out of a cup to check this) my filters are not clogged, i have plenty of heat...could i have damaged the injector pump with the 8.3 liter lift pump?...could my new lift pump be failing already?. the guy at cummins said that sometimes the lobe on the cam that drives the piston on the lifter sometimes wears down or breaks off i have not removed the pump yet to check this. does anyone know if this style pump is free flowing and would allow the injector to actually suck fuel if the lift pump was failing? i don't understand why im seeing vacuum. any help would be greatly appreciated
"be the change you want to see in this world"
93' Dodge W250 CTD 4x4 Auto 170+ 2 tank WVO
One ton single wheel rear end
Piston lift pump retro fit

http://panamericantrip.blogspot.com
colonelsanders
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:55 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ...again

Postby SunWizard » Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:20 pm

Your IP would not be bad since that doesn't affect the pressure before the IP. That depends only on the lift pump and the filter, or you could have your lines or an in tank screen clogged.

It sounds to me like clogged VO filter. They can clog very fast if there is any poly or water in the VO, have you done a hot pan test on your VO that is in the tank now? You could change the filter and cut the old one open to see if its swelled from water, or if you have a tank poly problem.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Postby colonelsanders » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:10 am

so chances are it's a restriction issue, and that would alow the ip to show vacume...will the lift pump alow the ip to pull?how quickly can poly form?...i've only had the system in for around 3 months. My diesel side is showing restriction also after i run on veg for short while also. i cut two of my veg filters open and they looked fine (not swollen) would the diesel filter "water in fuel" light come on if there was water in that filter?

would the engine act differently if there was water in the fuel? because im not getting any performance indication...although like i said im trusting my gauge and not taking the suction much past 10psi

im pretty good about my oil collection, its mostly straight out of the fryer. although i have done some dumpster sucking, no i have not done a hot pan test. i'll do that and drain my tank and change both filters again and see what happens
"be the change you want to see in this world"
93' Dodge W250 CTD 4x4 Auto 170+ 2 tank WVO
One ton single wheel rear end
Piston lift pump retro fit

http://panamericantrip.blogspot.com
colonelsanders
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:55 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ...again

Postby coachgeo » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:13 am

Do a Lubramolly diesel purge.

Do not do any more WVO till she is running right on diesel again. This helps with diagnosis.
Life; It's all in the Balance

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Postby SunWizard » Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:09 pm

colonelsanders wrote:would the diesel filter "water in fuel" light come on if there was water in that filter?

Yes sometimes on D2, but that only works on the D2 side. Water in your VO is the very common problem.
would the engine act differently if there was water in the fuel? because im not getting any performance indication...although like i said im trusting my gauge and not taking the suction much past 10psi

No. But your filter can clog quickly and suspended water can slowly damage the IP and injectors.
im pretty good about my oil collection, its mostly straight out of the fryer. although i have done some dumpster sucking, no i have not done a hot pan test. i'll do that and drain my tank and change both filters again and see what happens

Straight from the fryer can have water, thats why you need a hot pan test on every batch. And if poly occurs, it creates its own acidic water in the process. Poly can occur quickly in a large size steel fuel tank. If you get a paint smell right after you open the cap, you have poly.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
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Postby colonelsanders » Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:13 pm

i ordered a couple cans of lubro moly. in the mean time i bypassed my filter valve w/ a piece of stock fuel line to reduce any restriction or poly in that valve and changed my diesel filter. I was disappointed to find that the pressure is still dropping significantly under load on diesel even @ less than a mile of driving. i wont be running anymore veg till i get the diesel side figured out.

SunWizard: on my truck the " small drain manifold line" you talk about , runs back into my injector pump and not my stock fuel filter. so i didn't do this step. im very carful not to run out of my veg tank w/o having the return valve set to veg to avoid getting any veg in my diesel tank. i don't see how but could veg be getting into my diesel tank? and even if this is the case it seems that after changing my diesel filter i would be able to run for a while before seeing this pressure drop or a filter clog.
"be the change you want to see in this world"
93' Dodge W250 CTD 4x4 Auto 170+ 2 tank WVO
One ton single wheel rear end
Piston lift pump retro fit

http://panamericantrip.blogspot.com
colonelsanders
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:55 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ...again

Postby colonelsanders » Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:10 pm

so at the risk of sounding like and idiot could this issue be in my gauge its a cheap sunpro pressure/ boost gauge running thru a brass needle valve. do these gauges "go bad"? i talked to a guy from rocky mnt cummins and explained the situation, he said if im not having loss of power WOT, and no other symptoms(other than a poor gauge reading) i should cover up the gauge and forget about it till i do...

Sunwizard what type of gauge are you using for fuel pressure?
"be the change you want to see in this world"
93' Dodge W250 CTD 4x4 Auto 170+ 2 tank WVO
One ton single wheel rear end
Piston lift pump retro fit

http://panamericantrip.blogspot.com
colonelsanders
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:55 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ...again

Postby SunWizard » Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:15 pm

Yes guages go bad, but its not common. I am using a cheap $8 mechanical oil pressure gauge from autozone.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1719
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:53 pm
Location: N. Colorado

Postby colonelsanders » Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:53 pm

well I've got the truck running great on Diesel (15-18psi fuel pressure), cleaned the veg tank out, and put about 7 gallons of clean filtered wvo in. i went for a test drive this morning, I'm running into the same problem. at first when i switch over to wvo the fuel pressure is up @ 20+psi then as i drive a few miles, accelerate and get under load the pressure steadily drops to below 5psi. now i if i catch the pressure drop and switch my tank valve back to diesel (while still running through the veg filter) pressure will restore after a few more miles or so.

the wvo i put in the tank was run through my cf setup...filtered and dewatered. how much water does there have to be in vo to bog a filter? I'm running out of patience and options it seems. would an air leak show up as a drop in pressure? I have not allowed the pressure to drop below 5psi more than once or twice and i see a definite loss of power and stuttering of the engine. i should also mention when running through the veg filter on diesel fuel pressure is normal (15-18psi)
"be the change you want to see in this world"
93' Dodge W250 CTD 4x4 Auto 170+ 2 tank WVO
One ton single wheel rear end
Piston lift pump retro fit

http://panamericantrip.blogspot.com
colonelsanders
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:55 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ...again

Postby SunWizard » Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:31 pm

I suspect water in your VO, since you never did a hot pan test. Any amount that shows bubbles in a hot pan test can plug a filter. Change the filter is the easy way to tell if thats the problem.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1719
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:53 pm
Location: N. Colorado

Postby coachgeo » Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:38 pm

How well insulated is your TIH? Could your Tubes be getting cooled off by Windchill from driving thus thickning your fuel?

Are you sure the orientation of coolant and WVO plumbing on your FPHE correc to get maximum heat to your WVO?

Sorry I should read for recall of what you have stated already... I am fogetting if you mentioned actual fuel temps already? Do you have a fuel temp gauge or only a coolant temp gauge?
Life; It's all in the Balance

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Postby colonelsanders » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:10 am

that's ok, i actually don't have a TiH setup, my fuel pickup is a hot fox then hoh up to my tank valve. i have defiantly entertained the idea of it being a thickening of wvo issue, dont think thats it though. my FPHE is cross plumed coolant in/veg out. my temp gauge is plumed like in sunwizards pictures, you can see mine to @ my blog(attached to my signature) pic. link. im seeing around 140F to 160F(wvo temp) on my temp gauge.

sun: so will water in my wvo be retained in my filter, even after i run dewatered wvo or diesel? i dont understand why, when i notice a pressure drop and swich my tank back to diesel the pressure slowly restores....am i presumably pushing water though the veg filter w/diesel. forgive my ignorance im just trying to figure this out.
"be the change you want to see in this world"
93' Dodge W250 CTD 4x4 Auto 170+ 2 tank WVO
One ton single wheel rear end
Piston lift pump retro fit

http://panamericantrip.blogspot.com
colonelsanders
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 3:55 pm
Location: Tucson, AZ...again

Postby SunWizard » Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:54 am

colonelsanders wrote:sun: so will water in my wvo be retained in my filter, even after i run dewatered wvo or diesel?

Yes its absorbed by the filter.

Your HoH could be the problem, it doesn't provide anywhere near the heat of TiH, and the colder thicker VO is harder to get through a filter. I designed my system around the excellent heat of TiH. You could try feeling the VO hose before your filter, it should at least be hot to the touch (>120F.)
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1719
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:53 pm
Location: N. Colorado

Postby coachgeo » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:28 pm

SunWizard wrote:
colonelsanders wrote:...Your HoH could be the problem, it doesn't provide anywhere near the heat of TiH,...)
Maybe you posted at the same time so you didnt see that he shows 140-160deg temps of his WVO by his fuel temp gauge.

So sounds like that is not the issue but to make sure.. shoot the hose in a few different places with an IR temp meter, maybe shoot the filter too.

wonder if the filter is cooling things down.

he didnt say yet though if his HOH is insulated.
Life; It's all in the Balance

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Postby coachgeo » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:33 pm

looking at your pics.

I thought the FPHE's are suggested to be mounted vertically?
Life; It's all in the Balance

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