TIH setup

For discussing the modifications needed for diesel vehicles to run with 2 tank veggie oil conversions.

Moderators: SunWizard, coachgeo

TIH setup

Postby tubular031 » Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:45 pm

Sun-
I was looking over your conversion here
http://www.burnveg.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28

you put a part number for the tube you used (mucho thanks), Where did you get those compression fittings from? part number? Any leaks yet?
tubular031
 
Posts: 83
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:47 pm

Postby John Galt » Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:41 pm

TIH shouldn't be necessary in a correctly designed fuel heating system.
Last edited by John Galt on Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
John Galt
 
Posts: 526
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:17 pm
Location: Coldest North America

Postby SunWizard » Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:36 pm

Compression fittings were from home depot or any hardware store. No leaks. Its not obsolete or unreliable. Like most choices there are pros and cons, and I think the pros of more heat before the filter which allowed me to put the FPHE just before the IP, outweigh the cons: leaks when installed improperly.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1723
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:53 pm
Location: N. Colorado

Postby tubular031 » Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:58 pm

I thought HOH or TOH were not as good? meaning they can not heat the VO as much?

Sun - Did you use brass fittings throughout your setup? or SS?
tubular031
 
Posts: 83
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:47 pm

Postby John Galt » Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:21 pm

tubular031 wrote:I thought HOH or TOH were not as good? meaning they can not heat the VO as much?

They shouldn't have to in a correctly designed system. All they have to do is keep the fuel fluid. All the necessary heating is done by the terminal FPHE.

All those fittings in a HIH are not only expensive but prone to leaks as well as the metal tube itself, it's a more expensive and less reliable design.
Last edited by John Galt on Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
John Galt
 
Posts: 526
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:17 pm
Location: Coldest North America

Postby tubular031 » Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:03 pm

Hey that is why i am reading and learning! I dont know what I am doing here so that is why I am asking questions
tubular031
 
Posts: 83
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:47 pm

Postby John Galt » Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:19 pm

Search on the key words FPHE and HOH to find more information.
Last edited by John Galt on Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
John Galt
 
Posts: 526
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:17 pm
Location: Coldest North America

Postby SunWizard » Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:38 pm

tubular031 wrote:Sun - Did you use brass fittings throughout your setup? or SS?

Brass. You can see pictures and full details in the converted vehicles section here.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1723
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:53 pm
Location: N. Colorado

Postby bmalachuk » Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:33 am

so why exactly is tube in hose a bad idea? The concept seems pretty simple to me and for anyone that is remotely mechanically inclined should be able to assemble something like this properly.

I've already picked up a 50ft spool of 3/4 heater hose, 50ft of 3003 Aluminum 3/8in tubing, some brass "T"s, some hose barbs, and some parker vibra-lok 3/8in compression fittings.

I have had great luck using Vibra-Lok fittings in the past with no leaks on engine parts vibrating all the day long and under 3-5 times (fuel system) the pressure the cooling system is under. So what would cause leaks if the TIH is properly affixed to my truck's frame with rubber lined hose clips screwed (like these http://tinyurl.com/644b8a) to the frame?

I'm just about to begin putting all my WVO stuff on my 2000 Powerstroke and I saw this thread saying to stay away from TIH?
bmalachuk
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:30 am
Location: Albany, NY

Postby coachgeo » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:59 am

bmalachuk wrote:so why exactly is tube in hose a bad idea? The concept seems pretty simple to me and for anyone that is remotely mechanically inclined should be able to assemble something like this properly....
Well..... first your making an assumption about the remotely mechanically inclinded. There is plenty who feel this is an incorrect assumption. I guess for me, I don't trust myself.

so building on that if one looks at it with the assumption that mistakes can happen easier and cause leaks.... Add to it an unknown when it comes to HISTORY. How long.... 30,000 miles? 100,000 miles?, 8,000miles? till it starts to leak from wear.

Then you run into the facts that makes it look like a bad idea.

Fact- water/coolant leak into fuel causes high probability of a damaged or ruined engine .

sooo... its down to..

Water leak causes a mess you got to clean up, or overheated engine WITH prior warning via temp gauge (HOH TOH)
-------versus-------
Water leak causes a major damaged engine over time, gradual warning but too late? (TIT, TIH, TIT)
Last edited by coachgeo on Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
Life; It's all in the Balance

Moderator
coachgeo
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:46 am
Location: North Texas

Postby SunWizard » Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:27 am

bmalachuk wrote:so why exactly is tube in hose a bad idea? The concept seems pretty simple to me and for anyone that is remotely mechanically inclined should be able to assemble something like this properly.

The problem isn't in assembly its in installation. The only problem I have heard of is from 2 people out of the many hundreds who have used TiH, and that was due to kinking the tube sharply and repeatedly during installation to the point where the aluminum cracked.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1723
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:53 pm
Location: N. Colorado

Postby John Galt » Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:23 pm

so why exactly is tube in hose a bad idea?

More fittings, more joints, more chances of failure, more expensive, less reliable, and most importantly totally unnecessary. The HIH design and it's variations is a holdover from pre FPHE days when the lines from the tank acted as the heat exchanger. Using a FPHE makes HIH unnecessary in a correctly designed system. For maximum reliability keep it simple.
Last edited by John Galt on Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
John Galt
 
Posts: 526
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:17 pm
Location: Coldest North America

Postby SunWizard » Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:43 pm

I disagree. Making a blanket statement like that is what should be obsolete. If you want to run PHO in <20F temps as I often do, I need the added TiH heat or my filter will clog. Or I would need a 2nd FPHE before the filter. It all depends on your VO type, temps, and how you plumb your system, and how you choose to make the trade-offs.

Putting the filter after the FPHE is a bad idea since then you run for 5-10 miles after switchover on cold VO.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1723
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:53 pm
Location: N. Colorado

Postby John Galt » Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:12 pm

Insulated HOH does everything that HIH does, but better with less cost and greater reliability, so we will just have to agree to disagree.
Last edited by John Galt on Sun Nov 23, 2008 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
John Galt
 
Posts: 526
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:17 pm
Location: Coldest North America

Postby coachgeo » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:10 pm

SunWizard wrote:...If you want to run PHO in <20F temps as I often do, I need the added TiH heat or my filter will clog. Or I would need a 2nd FPHE before the filter. It all depends on your VO type, temps, and how you plumb your system, and how you choose to make the trade-offs...
John G, I thought your statement was a little to "blanketish" too.

SunW, some good points about trade offs etc.

Do see some of Johns G's thoughts too though. For example, SunW, I'm not understanding the negative thoughts of having a second FPHE? If someone is running coolant lines with a TIH back to; or near the, tank anyway.... why not instead use a second FPHE mounted in the rear by the tank? Would think it much less laborurs to install that way,.... and one could still run HOH along with it?

I'm sure there is reasoning to your thoughts of TIH instead of 2nd FPHE that Im just not seeing.
Life; It's all in the Balance

Moderator
coachgeo
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:46 am
Location: North Texas

Next

Return to 2 Tank veggie oil conversion and General discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron