Testing fuels and blends by connecting to gen set and load

Single Tank WVO systems and blending SVO WVO to thin it.

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Postby David » Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:52 pm

What would Viscosity testing tell anyone?

I can list what is thinnest to thickest without testing and I'm sure most people would be able to do the same.

Not sure what this shows or how it matters?

I don't give a damn about what might or could happen until a significant group of people can tell me it HAS happened to them.
Until then, it's just more endless gloom and doom Veg folk law.
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Postby Burbarian » Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:20 pm

All other factors being equal (same fuel, same energy density, same air charge, etc) a less viscous fuel will atomize more readily. Finer atomization promotes better combustion characteristics, which improves efficiency and reduces soot formation.

In testing with blends and heated vo, the viscosity of the fuels used will have a significant impact on final usable power output. Straight diesel would be a baseline. Straight vo heated to have a viscosity identical to diesel would be a useful secondary baseline to compare blends to.
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Postby coachgeo » Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:08 pm

knowing the viscosity you test with allows for another person to; using your same viscosity measuring tool, try to duplicate your results. This gives validity.

This also allows them to correlate information with a higher degree of reliablity.
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Postby bio_cowboy » Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:48 pm

While writing a grant proposal for my bio-fuels research project I found a Dynamometer that is available for hire, if any of you are able to use it.

Dynamometer Testing & Leasing
Chief Engines, INC
2311 S.W. 31st ST.
Fort Lauderdale, FL 33312
TEL 954-587-3020 FAX 954-587-3515
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Postby coachgeo » Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:21 pm

A google search turned up a few such companies. I wonder if there is a manfucturer making this mobile units that sells them as a franchise business or straight biz.

The manufacture would be a GREAT sponsor for Veg Dyno tuning projects held say every 4-6 months in diff. parts of the country??
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Postby bio_cowboy » Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:34 am

Yes, I agree coachgeo, a mobile dynamometer would be very useful for the bio-fuels experimenters to have access to. That might be a project I will work on as well, once I have attracted one grant to do bio-fuels research to hone my own blending theory.
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Postby mixelpix » Mon Dec 15, 2008 4:34 am

Hi David,

Thank you so much for the excellent and well written post about your experiences. I use a 25kW Wacker (Isuzu 4 cyl DI and ... i forget the gen set mfr?) at my home and have been a little hesitant to "muck about" as you have bravely done. So thanks again for posting and saving me the worry about experimenting on the thing which keeps me warm and lights my home :D

:twisted: "Twisted Evil" indeed.



At 20% it is very likely that the anti-knock properties of the gasoline are just making the engine run roughly in spite of any benefit it might have to thinning WVO. Wonder what the emissions were like? : (



I calculate my rpms according to the Hz. I am currently using a three phase output (ferget if its delta or wie?) but @ 1800rpm it = 60Hz even and i can adjust the idle with a turn screw. I don't have my backyard calculator stick but it has sumthin to do with 18/3 = 6. It genreally runs fast @ 1st and then settles in. Not sure if that is some kind of auto controlling for a warm up period or what, but when it settles it it stays pretty rock solid @ 1800.

Only recently even thought to evaluate the rpms per blend (duh! :) ) and just kinda figured that lower cetane might mean lower rpms? Anyways, just saying thanks as well :) LOVE the coffee can viscometer idea! Lastly, and my apologies for being speculative, but could you have a liquid fuel which was not viscous enough? I wonder what the tolerances of newer DI's would be? From what I have read from The Star (Benz mag), the new BlueTecs are very "unforgivingly" engineered and won't respond well to fuels which do not closely match the physical characteristics of ULSD (visc, density, etc...)



While it was a pleasant gesture from you, and I might be reading your apology incorrectly, I don't think that David was upset about what you said in regards to his person or equipment. I am pretty sure you offended his sense of civil propriety.

But enough about him - let's have a rational discussion and reason together? As I understand you are now in the process of writing a grant application for a "bio-fuels" project? I am sure a calm discussion on the subject of biofuels would help you to hone your theory with or without additional grant monies.

From what I have read of your postings here and elsewhere you recommend blending with acetone when using animal fats. For vegetable oils I have seen diffferent temperature charts from you that recommend a minimum blend of gasoline in vegetable oil of 5% in the warmer months and as much as 30% in the the Winter. I generally see you recommending specifically regular unleaded gasoline (87 octane range?)

If you can explain to me what exactly qualifies gasoline as a "bio" fuel?

Just so I am clear about my inquiry into your useage of the term, "biofuel" I am not talking carbon emissions, but specifically it would seem to me that the incidence and proclivity of toxins and pollutants associated with the manufacture and use of the constituent hydrocarbon liqduid blends which are commonly sold under the name "gasoline" would preclude it's use under the term, "biofuel" or anything which suggests sustainability and carbon based life beneficial organic harmony. Much like the term "organic" is used in marketing in ways which are antithetical to it's actual meaning, I am troubled by the useage of this "bio-" as well. Not so much with a term like "biodiesel" because that is fuel optimized for the emissions coming out of a compression ignition (C.I.) engine. Calling a 95% v.o. and 5% r.u.g. mix or a 70% v.o. and 30% r.u.g. mix a "bio-fuel" seems disingenuous if not misguided.



p.s. did you know that benzoic acid, a common preservative in soft drinks, reacts with citric acid in heat or sunlight and decarboxylates (losses a -COOH, iirc) into BENZENE?!? California lists it as carcinogenic @ like 1ppb and the incidence in canned soda can commonly be like 30 ppb?!?

p.p.s. ppb was fun to manually type in html code, LoL! :lol: :cry: such a nerd...
Last edited by mixelpix on Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby 240Volvo » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:28 am

I think that as we are looking for ways to increase the ability we have to use WVO as a fuel, it is legitimate to refer to blends that are in the main derived from plant sources in this manner. Certainly in the discussions here. I agree with your point about a technical definition in that regard, but I hope that we can stick to the subject in a way that we can avoid irritating each other.

I would much prefer that we could find plant-derived solvents for thinning oil. But until that is accomplished, I would rather blend the smallest amount of petroleum-derived solvent that I can which will allow me to use WVO as a fuel in cold weather than use petroleum products exclusively. It is a step in the right direction. That is what we are doing, taking steps in the right direction.
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