any other 3rd gen cummins blending?

Single Tank WVO systems and blending SVO WVO to thin it.

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any other 3rd gen cummins blending?

Postby buzzinhalfdoz » Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:52 pm

hello everyone, i am new to the forum, it is nice to be on a forum where they arent trying to sell u something. i drive a 03 cummins 2500 4x4 common rail truck.i use a winter front grille cover from nov untill march. i drive a lot, maby 200-300 miles a day, 4 days a week, members on my truck forum say u cant run wvo in a 3rd gen common rail. i have been doing it for about 4 months now, about 12,000 miles. i let it set in a heated shop at least a week, then i cold filter it through blue jeans, then a 2 micron filter bag, then through a 2 micron plumbing filter, and last through a goldenrod tank fuel filter(15micron) gravity feed, i only use the top 4 gallon out of a 4 1/2 gal cube. my winter mix is 4 gal wvo, 1/2 gal rug, 30 gal #2. i park in a heated shop(60 degrees) , and no smoke at startup or any other time( maby if i baby it for 2-3 days then slam the skinny pedal, a slight brownish haze for about 2 seconds is all i c.
anyone else blending in a 3rd gen cummins? am i doing anything wrong? any ideas. thanks :D
03 cummins 2500,4x4,some mpg mods,25%wvo,240,000 miles now,original IP,+50hp sticks,work truck
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Postby John Galt » Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:39 pm

Welcome to the best VO fuel forum on the 'net.

Looks like you're doing all the right things for a successful fuel blend. My only suggestion would be to add a FPHE upstream of the filter and IP. In my experience diesels like hot fuel blends, especially in the winter.
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Postby coachgeo » Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:58 am

John Galt wrote:.... My only suggestion would be to add a FPHE ....
Hot blends.... makes perfect since.. hmmm but with RUG? wont that vaporize?
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Postby John Galt » Wed Dec 17, 2008 1:56 am

coachgeo wrote:
John Galt wrote:.... My only suggestion would be to add a FPHE ....
Hot blends.... makes perfect since.. hmmm but with RUG? wont that vaporize?


It might, but where is it going to go? Once it gets into the IP it's going to be condensed by the high pressure. Most who are using RUG and other volatiles are seeing no adverse effects at less than 15% if it's combined with a greater percent of VO to balance it.

Yes, I expect that an RUG-ULSD blend will cause problems without the VO.
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Postby buzzinhalfdoz » Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:45 am

what am i hurting or chanceing by not heating the fuel blend??? with the winter front grille cover, i have driven about 1 hour in 30 degree temps and stoped the truck , opened the hood, and felt the injector lines, they are very warm to the touch. if i do get a fuel heater, what about when i am running straight#2, will i overheat it??? thanks :D
03 cummins 2500,4x4,some mpg mods,25%wvo,240,000 miles now,original IP,+50hp sticks,work truck
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Postby coachgeo » Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:37 am

heatng the diesel..... may or may not be an issue. matters the tolerance of the IP and sensors attached.

One.. some components may be designed to be COOLED by the diesel.

Two- it has been reported that hot WVO's nature allows it to absorb heat as well as normal teamp diesel

Three- Some components don't handle the expansion contraction of cold to hot (thermal shock).

Four- Some components may want to use the diesel as lubrication (inside the IP for example) and if you heat the diesel higher than it is intended to be used..... then it lowers its lubrication qualities... then component wear can occur.


IMHO, I would read up on the boards where the gear heads are that love your engine IP setup. Not WVO boards in particular..... just Cummins. Learn the ins and outs of that engine IP.

Read the tech discussions on the various WVO boards relating to this engine too so you can pick up more knowledge from that end too.

Some of this you may already be doing.
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Postby coachgeo » Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:47 am

John Galt wrote:...It might, but where is it going to go?
Vapor lock or partial vapor locks, Some items in the IP and injectors work off of liquid pressure.... and vapor pressure wont cut it etc. , least that is my understandings.
.... Most who are using RUG and other volatiles are seeing no adverse effects at less than 15% if it's combined with a greater percent of VO to balance it.
Sounds like your more up on the readings about heat and RUG than I. Are you saying what you've read and experienced that "heated" WVO/RUG blends up to 15% RUG have not been having vapor issues? Boy I hope your right. Would make some of the things I've been running thru my head more plausable.

That topic would make a great thread actually. Think I'll start one. John and others, look forward to your info here at Heated Rug/WVO and simular blends
Last edited by coachgeo on Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby buzzinhalfdoz » Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:38 pm

i already belong to 3 cummins fourms, they think i am crazy, they say destroy a 10,000$ engine to save 20-40$ a week. well the engine is basically the same as the 2nd and 1st gen cummins, so i figure the difference must be in the injection system, not the engine. they all agree the 1st gen will burn anything. so i will be fixing the problems in the 3rd gen fuel injection system as they come up(i already have +50hp injectors, larger holes, should let the wvo flow better). i think it is the thickness of the wvo blend that matters most in my engine. my problem now is that, say when the IP goes out , will it be the wvo, or the 240,000 + miles on it??? my stock sticks lasted to almost 240,000 miles. :D
03 cummins 2500,4x4,some mpg mods,25%wvo,240,000 miles now,original IP,+50hp sticks,work truck
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Postby SunWizard » Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:28 pm

240k miles? Thats nothing for a Cummins, they easily go 500k without fixing anything.

Yes your lift pump, IP and injectors are way different than the earlier cummins, since they are electronic and very high pressure, and not nearly as tough with thicker fuels.
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vapor lock with blends

Postby bio_cowboy » Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:31 pm

I have been tracking the anecdotes of those who have been blending with gasoline and heating their fuel lines. It seems that those who use less than 10% RUG blends do not generally experience vapor lock at any temperature of the fuel. Those who go over 10% tend to start having vapor lock problems.

Also, what temperature and where one heats is relevant as well. If the heat does not go over 120F anywhere on the fuel line, then again there is no problem with vapor lock. And, where the temperature goes over 120F is on the positive side of the lift pump then there should not be a problem, because the added pressure on the positive side of the lift pump should keep RUG in solution at the kinds of temperatures that people tend to get with fuel line heating.

Finally, those who blend with diesel or kerosene and heat their fuel line do not report vapor lock.
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Postby John Galt » Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:17 pm

That's consistent with my experience. I purposefully connected the FPHE between the lift pump and fuel filter to eliminate the problems with air leaks and to reduce the potential for the naphtha vaporizing. I also keep the amount of naphtha less than 10%, less in the summer when it's hot out. I suspect that the fuel temperature in the FPHE is close to 80°C since it's 66°C when it gets to the injectors after passing through the filter and IP.
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Postby buzzinhalfdoz » Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:02 am

ok i would like to know where to get a fuel heater? i need two 3/4" inlets for water and two 3/8" inlets for fuel. and does anybody offer a inline thermostat for 3/4" heater hose??? now if i put this heater downstream in my system say at the tank outlet, then it heats to the liftpump-filter combination, then to the IP. i could put a shutoff valve in the 3/4 line to turn off in summer or when i run straight#2. is this a good idea?
03 cummins 2500,4x4,some mpg mods,25%wvo,240,000 miles now,original IP,+50hp sticks,work truck
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Postby bio_cowboy » Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:46 am

Yes, buzzinhalfdoz, I think being able to shut off the hot water to your fuel line is a good idea, or using a thermostat to control the heat on the fuel line is an even better idea, but I have not found a thermostat yet to do that.

Also, I doubt if heating the fuel line would cause problems for your #2 diesel even if the hot water was on in the summer time, because #2 diesel has a sufficiently high boiling point. It is really only gasoline as a thinner over 10% that tends to have a problem with fuel line heating.
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Postby SunWizard » Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:00 am

Whenever on VO, you want as much heat as you can get, even during summer. Coolant is already controlled by a thermostat to a good temp for VO so another is not needed.
Its a good idea to shut off your heat to a FPHE if you run D2 for more than just startup since heat can lower the lubricity too much. See:
Lubricity Additive Study Results
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Postby coachgeo » Thu Dec 18, 2008 12:11 pm

you can run a small amount of extra lubricant in your fuel (WVO :D ) in your diesel fuel in the summers and not have to worry about lubrication loss due to heated fuel.

buttt... Like said before make sure the diesel is not used to cool anything in/on that engine first.
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