On board filtration system

Collecting, filtering and dewatering of WVO SVO vegetable oil. For Biodiesel producers too.

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On board filtration system

Postby dragonfly » Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:14 am

I have my old '69 Chevy 3/4T (purchased new in '69) that I removed the V8 gasser 350 ci and replaced it with a Perkins straight 6 354 ci. I'm going to convert it to WVO this spring. Question: does anyone have a working on board filtration system? What parts, pumps and filtration capacity? Drawings of said system? I'd like to put an large capacity (100 + gals) round aluminum in the bed near the cab.
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Postby SunWizard » Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:37 am

I run my Dieselcraft CF onboard, see that thread here with pics and diagram:
http://www.burnveg.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4

(thread moved to filtering section.)
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
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Postby coachgeo » Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:34 pm

Sun...... am I right in that one of the Dieselcraft competitors in the oil (diesel motor oil) world has a slighty pressurized outer chamber, or maybe a vacuum on it or something.... not sure if it is to pull vapor out or to help push cleaned oil along back to the sump... butt hmmmm.... Wonder if it could be used to pull water vapor out for our purpose of a closed onboard CF system?

Would be nice to be runing the CF while driving instead of only when stopped.
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Postby SunWizard » Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:27 pm

coachgeo wrote:Sun...... am I right in that one of the Dieselcraft competitors in the oil (diesel motor oil) world has a slighty pressurized outer chamber, or maybe a vacuum on it or something.... not sure if it is to pull vapor out or to help push cleaned oil along back to the sump... butt hmmmm.... Wonder if it could be used to pull water vapor out for our purpose of a closed onboard CF system?

Some models of spinner II use compressed air to force the VO out of the CF drain lines so that the CF doesn't need to be above everything for gravity. No help for dewatering.
Would be nice to be runing the CF while driving instead of only when stopped.

I can run mine while driving but prefer not to since its easier to check up on and clean, etc.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Re: On board filtration system

Postby WD8CDH » Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:50 pm

dragonfly wrote:<snip> Question: does anyone have a working on board filtration system? What parts, pumps and filtration capacity? Drawings of said system? I'd like to put an large capacity (100 + gals) round aluminum in the bed near the cab.


Keep in mind that water removal is as important or more important than filtering. Other than a CF, there has been little success in removing water while in motion.
Ron Schroeder
WD8CDH
'85 MB 300DT 2 Tank
Since '81 former WVO conversions:
'83 240D
'80 Audi 4000D
'83 Isuzu Pup
'86 Golf
'76 Honda Civic with Kubota engine
Prior to the cars, several generators
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Re: On board filtration system

Postby coachgeo » Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:08 pm

WD8CDH wrote:Keep in mind that water removal is as important or more important than filtering. Other than a CF, there has been little success in removing water while in motion.
Keep also in mind the dieselcraft and simular units do not remove water by CF action alone. They seem to remove it mostly by hot flash evaporation. The CF action removes heavy water, water soluble acids (this is what made the water heavy?) and other contaminants/debree.
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Mobile Filtration

Postby dragonfly » Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:25 pm

My stationary filtration system is the SimpleCF and heat. There seems to be no choice in using the DieselCraft CF in a mobile system when it comes to taking water out of the WVO when on the road. Guess I'd better start looking at fabricating a CF bowl and 1/3 hp electric motor/Honda 1500 Watt portable generator as suggested by SunWizard. I can envision heating the oil with the block coolant water while driving and then maintaining the 170F temp via electric hot water heating elements all night. Might have to say put for two days to let the oil settle out, then drain off the junk. Anymore thoughts out there?
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Re: Mobile Filtration

Postby SunWizard » Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:20 am

dragonfly wrote:There seems to be no choice in using the DieselCraft CF in a mobile system when it comes to taking water out of the WVO when on the road.

I am not sure what you mean, there are lots of choices for using a DC CF on the road, since it dewaters both by CF action and flash evaporation. And it was designed with big bearings that can handle the large g forces of operating while moving.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Postby dragonfly » Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:11 am

What I have read on this Forum, the DC doesn't de-water very well. I haven't seen any numbers indicating the ppm. I might suggesty the Sandy Brea Water test is a valid testing method. Are there any tests that show the ppm using the SB test or any other method for CF WVO using the DC unit? The DC was designed to CF engine oil and that's a very different ball game!
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Postby SunWizard » Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:44 am

dragonfly wrote:What I have read on this Forum, the DC doesn't de-water very well. I haven't seen any numbers indicating the ppm. I might suggesty the Sandy Brea Water test is a valid testing method. Are there any tests that show the ppm using the SB test or any other method for CF WVO using the DC unit?

Completely untrue, I wonder where you got that wrong info on this forum, I would go post on that thread to give my experiences. It dewaters great in a rig built like mine, faster and to a lower amount of water than any other method I have used. Yes I did tests using Karl Fischer lab tests which is the most accurate test available, see the dieselcraft thread first post here. It dewaters to pass the hot pan test with no bubbles every time which is the standard that most people have been using for many years. There are many hundreds who have posted about their good success using it.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Postby coachgeo » Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:52 am

Dragonfly..... not sure what your reading but somewhere your either missunderstanding or something.

There is nothing that has come along yet that dewaters as good, in a short amount of time as the hot oil flash/CF like the dieselcraft.

In fact it is close to saying that it is probably the best method for the money compared to any other method.

The test data seems to back it up.

Please do point out any post or threads that make you see it any different.
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Postby WD8CDH » Wed Dec 31, 2008 10:40 am

Usually if a CF doesn't dewater well enough, either it had not been run for enough passes or oil with a lot of water had stayed in the corners or bottom of the tank and never made it thru the CF.
Ron Schroeder
WD8CDH
'85 MB 300DT 2 Tank
Since '81 former WVO conversions:
'83 240D
'80 Audi 4000D
'83 Isuzu Pup
'86 Golf
'76 Honda Civic with Kubota engine
Prior to the cars, several generators
Kubota Tractor
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PPM Results

Postby dragonfly » Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:46 am

Search on this forum resulted in this post by SunWizard on March 4/08 - DC CF works great - my filter and dewatering rig

"Interesting results for water reduction. #1= 708ppm, #2= 545ppm, #3=478ppm by Karl Fischer ASTM D6304.

It removed my suspended water, even with 1 pass, when I captured the output at shutdown. This shows the pan test is not detecting water below 545ppm. I ran 2 pan tests on each sample separated by several hours. #1 showed lots of bubbles. #2 and 3 had no bubbles. When I shutdown after 1 pass and captured the output, I tested the captured VO and it was very bad on the pan test (lots of crackles.) This showed it was removing the water by true centrifuge in the rotor, not by evaporative means (which could make the pan test not reliable.)"

SunWizard:
It would have bee interesting to know the water content of the RAW oil that was started with in order to get a bench mark. After the DC test #3, the best dewatering was 478 ppm. My RAW sample (bench mark) started with 675 ppm via the Sandy Brea Test then Simplecentrifuged at 150F+ at .5 gals/min that resulted in 75 ppm. This test was repeated just to be sure. Same results with another test. I think I'll stick with my Simple CF, if that the best the DC CF can do even after 3 passes. In a stationary filtration setup, I can see multiple passes to clean. My original question on the forum dealt with a mobile system. SunWizard did suggest the use of a small AC unit to power an electrical motor. Still thinking about that idea.
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Postby coachgeo » Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:03 pm

I may be mistaken but I do not believe a motor driven spinning bowl "flow up/spill over" type centrifuge can operate efficently in a moving vehicle. In fact it may even be unsafe.

Bowl will experience sloshing of oil (changing levels of oil from one side to another) and other fluid dynamics that would :

one- make for ineffcient CFing.

two- have the CF bowl at an imbalanced environment often. Imballanced bowl spinning at high speed is alot of stress and if it breaks up, the thought of the resulting parts slung out as projectiles would make me [elmer fud voice] vewy vewy neauvious[/voice]

Ones designed like the DC Im thinking does not experience the sloshing etc., Im guessing this due to the pressurized nature?
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Postby WD8CDH » Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:37 pm

The moving vehicle will cause minimal sloshing. The CF will generate 500 to several thousand G's while acceleration, braking and cornering is under 1 G, a fraction of a percent. 1" bearings should easily handle the forces from a CF rotor since they can handle the forces of a multiple horsepower electric motor's rotor at 7,000 rpm.
Ron Schroeder
WD8CDH
'85 MB 300DT 2 Tank
Since '81 former WVO conversions:
'83 240D
'80 Audi 4000D
'83 Isuzu Pup
'86 Golf
'76 Honda Civic with Kubota engine
Prior to the cars, several generators
Kubota Tractor
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