Cold temperature experiments

Single Tank WVO systems and blending SVO WVO to thin it.

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Cold temperature experiments

Postby John Galt » Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:50 am

It's been hovering around 0°F for a while so I decided to try some cold start experiments. I reduced the VO to 5% and the jetB to 3%, giving 93% ULSD. The preheaters were plugged in for an hour, much less than usual for that temperature. The truck started OK but blew a patch of black soot on the snow, and the exhaust was noticeably smoky. For subsequent starts I went back to normal 5 hr preheating for that temperature, with usual clean starts and used about 10 gallons of fuel over a few days. Then I added 6 gal of JetB, increasing it to 27% [≈13% naphtha] and repeated the 1hr preheat at 0°F, then started but this time with no patch of black soot or no visible smoke. Other than a noticeable decrease in power with that much jetB, the extreme cold and the winter grade -50degree ULSD, there were no adverse effects.
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Postby rtarh2o » Mon Dec 29, 2008 11:59 pm

John, refresh my memory, what kind of car are you blending in? I am really surprised there would be any difference at all with only 5% WVO, even at 0º? With that said I am glad I am in Texas!
Good luck with it, even 5% savings is better than none.
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94 6.2 Diesel Toyota Land Cruiser 7,000 miles on blend (sold)
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Postby John Galt » Tue Dec 30, 2008 1:47 am

The vehicle is an '89 Toyota truck with a 3.4L turbo diesel.

The VO component is reduced to 5% because it's -10°F at this time of year, and because I wanted to test the cold start properties of the additional naphtha on the ULSD winter D1. The 5% VO is the winter minimum I run to add lubricity to the -50°C D1.

I run VO to clean the exhaust emissions, not for the cost savings.

My fuel comes entirely from Canadian sources, and getting it from the well to my tank employs fellow Canadians. None of the money I pay for fuel goes to foreign countries where it might fund terrorists.
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Engine Preheating

Postby John Galt » Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:07 am

Experiments with engine preheating for clean cold starts [no smoke, no rough running], has shown that 1 hr for every 10°F temperature drop starting at 40°F seems to be the effective minimum preheat time.

IMHO preheating the engine for clean starts significantly reduces the engine deposits which form in a cold engine when it's smoking on start-up, which in turn will lead to longer engine life and less frequent injector maintenance.
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Postby jburke » Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:41 pm

Hi John,

My pre-heating experience matches yours. About 1 hr @ 40*F. with 1500 watt heater. 2 hours at 20*F. using pre-heat allows cleaner starts.TThen I just have to have it thin enough t flow thrugh the filter. The filter is my cold run limit.

Haven't tried at 0*F ever.
Did start at 9*F on 40% canola 60% ULSD.
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Postby John Galt » Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:31 pm

I wrapped an 85W pad heater around the fuel filter, and placed a 50W battery blanket across the injectors. Along with the lower rad hose heater this pre-heats the critical components, and once the truck is running the FPHE takes over heating the fuel.
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Postby jburke » Thu Jan 22, 2009 6:36 am

Hi John,

Again, we're similar.
My Elsbett has a 200 watt metal band heater around the fuel filter.
But it still needs help. after about 45 seconds the f.f. empties unless more fuel is manually forced in < 15*F. The f.f. is 'heat sinked' to the chassis by it's clamp, plus some heat is lost to the air. How much actually gets to the fuel? 100 watts?

A 15 minute band heater pre-heat ability would probably work under these conditions. Or a pocket Tiger Torch. ;-)
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Postby buzzinhalfdoz » Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:04 am

i run 15-25%wvo in winter. i waxed my first filter last week. temps got to 2-10 degrees outside. i started fine clean no smoke from my heated shop(60degrees), i drove around 200 miles in 2-6 degrees and truck started running out of fuel on hills. i could let it set 10-15 min then every thing would be fine for a while. i had to baby it all way home about 75miles 45-55 mph on flat and less up hills. when i got home i changed my factory filter, it was clean but brownish shinny, new filter truck runs fine...
03 cummins 2500,4x4,some mpg mods,25%wvo,240,000 miles now,original IP,+50hp sticks,work truck
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Cold weather performance of Vegetable Oil Blended Diesel Fue

Postby Jeffrey S Brooks » Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:07 pm

Cold weather performance of Vegetable Oil Blended Diesel Fuel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SoZT7rCUQY

Interesting reading what others are doing to run vegetable oil in a diesel engine in the cold weather. I have been running various blends of Waste Vegetable Oil (WVO) and unleaded gasoline (Petrol) since Feb, 2007 on a 1983 Chevy 6.2L diesel with a Stanadyne Rotary DB2 IP. I have started the engine with no difficulty on an 80/20 (WVO/gas (petrol)) blend down to 3F (-16c) without the use of a block heater.
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Re: Cold weather performance of Vegetable Oil Blended Diesel

Postby coachgeo » Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:45 pm

Jeffrey S Brooks wrote:....
Interesting reading what others are doing to run vegetable oil in a diesel engine in the cold weather. I have been running various blends of Waste Vegetable Oil (WVO) and unleaded gasoline (Petrol) since Feb, 2007 ....
Have you read any of the stuff that discussed the possiblity that the RUG is creating a second flame front allowing for a more complete burn of the WVO? Have not seen this discussed in YEARS... but its intresting.

What MPG are you getting on your blend? What is power difference to when she runs diesel?

hmmmm.... answering those questions specific to your rig is sorta getting a bit off topic of John G.'s thread so please start a thread on your rig... tell us if/how you heat any of your fuel etc. I'll transfer my questions over to that thread once you create it.
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Re: Cold weather performance of Vegetable Oil Blended Diesel

Postby David » Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:00 am

Jeffrey S Brooks wrote:Cold weather performance of Vegetable Oil Blended Diesel Fuel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SoZT7rCUQY

Interesting reading what others are doing to run vegetable oil in a diesel engine in the cold weather. I have been running various blends of Waste Vegetable Oil (WVO) and unleaded gasoline (Petrol) since Feb, 2007 on a 1983 Chevy 6.2L diesel with a Stanadyne Rotary DB2 IP. I have started the engine with no difficulty on an 80/20 (WVO/gas (petrol)) blend down to 3F (-16c) without the use of a block heater.


Oh Gawd! :roll:

He's back again!

I have seen you have been doing the rounds of the forums trying to push your obsessive compulsion with RUG blending yet again.

You have posted the exact same thing on at least one other forum in the last 24 hours and asked them to make a specific Blending thread.
If they don't, as they failed to do last time you pushed for the same thing, are you going to start posting up conspiricy theroies on your yahoo site like you did last time?
If you don't remember or want to dispute that, I can easily link you to copies of what you said.

I don't know if your sudden re-appearance on veg forums trying to push your obsessive mantra's is because your not getting enough attention as a self ordained Buddist priest that no one else seems to have a good word for in that religion but PLEASE don't go off on the same unbalanced tangents you did before and cause more problems.

Few people are going to agree with you as few have done before but it's not a conspiicy as you have made out and complained so bitterly over in the past.

It's fine to have you opinion but please dont try to ram it down everyone else's throats and get upset if anyone disagrees with you or accuse forum moderators of " Trying to suppress meaningful Dialouge on blending.
We had enough of that rot last time you came to town pushing your wobbly wheelbarrow.
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Re: Cold weather performance of Vegetable Oil Blended Diesel

Postby coachgeo » Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:17 pm

David wrote:...Oh Gawd! :roll:

He's back again!
I have seen you have been doing the rounds of the forums trying to push your obsessive compulsion with RUG blending yet again. ....
:?: :?: David what in the heck is your beef with this thread? For example..... I don't look at ANY other Veg oil forums but this one and have allways had intrest in RUG blends. So this is interesting to me and glad he spoke up. Possibly intrest others too.

Just cause it does not intrest you, or what ever other beef you have with it... does not mean no one else should have the opportunity to participate and learn from a RUG Blend discussion.

If you saw it somewhere else and its old news to you... dont read the thread :roll:
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Postby SunWizard » Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:24 pm

The beef is with Jeffrey Brooks, not RUG. I think David even uses RUG blends.

He has been banned here 2x and I am now banning him again, since I looked back at the mess he left here before and never want to repeat that. He is 1 of only 2 who have ever been banned here.
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Postby coachgeo » Wed Feb 09, 2011 3:45 pm

SunWizard wrote:The beef is with Jeffrey Brooks, not RUG. I think David even uses RUG blends.

He has been banned here 2x and I am now banning him again, since I looked back at the mess he left here before and never want to repeat that. ...
ok....

well if anyone else has any new blending info particularly with RUG; I'm all for them starting a thread on it.
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Postby David » Wed Feb 09, 2011 5:33 pm

SunWizard wrote:The beef is with Jeffrey Brooks, not RUG. I think David even uses RUG blends.


Correct!

AFAIK, this is the only veg forum worth a cracker anymore even if it is not the most active one which is a shame.

Jeffery who is a man of highly questionable stability, has caused some of the worst messes on forums I have seen and I have been in the middle of a couple of them so I know!

I do blend myself with RUG and have been a proponent of it for over 4 years since I started running veg myself and filled my tank with a blend last night. My support for blending particularly with RUG has been against a lot of opposition over the years, but what what Jeffery preaches is just purely and utterly dangerous and detrimental to blending, especially with his unhealthy obsession with RUG blending which he tries to ram down everyone elses throat.

He lambasted this and every other forum he soiled a year or two ago accusing them of all sorts of conspiricys and far fetched agenda's on his pretty much singularly frequented Yahoo site when people failed to embrace his obsessive preoccupation with his dangerously flawed mantra's and accused many people, specificly myself included of having agenda's to "Discourage meaningful discourse and discussion on RUG blending".

Earlier on he quoted many paragraphs of what I wrote on various forums and twisted it to look like I was supporting his imbalanced rantings and when I publicly told him I did not want to be associated with him in any way or supported anything he said, of course then I was some sort of CIA cohort in the attempt to overthrow the world by suppressing meaningful dialouge on RUG blending as well as the other people in the plot. :roll:
I am pretty sure George, your name and Sun's is on that list as well because he was removed from here and this forum did not give him catre blanche to rant his manical preachings .

And for those that do not have any other source of info on veg or Jeffery, I and about every other person that has done RUG blending maintain that the blending ratios he INSISTS upon are far too high to be safe, reliable or even workable and as such, those following his falsely authoritarian advise are going to run into problems without a doubt sooner rather than later.
He also preaches a number of other things that are dangerous, I suspect Illeagal or just completely flawed and misleading. I have seen pictures of his vehicle modifications which defy belief in the structual damage and weakening they would cause a vehicle and I would be highly surprised if they didn't render a vehicle modified this way unregisterable if inspected by any authourity in any part of the world.

If anyone wants to take me to task for speaking out about a person and the dangerous misinformation they are hell bent on contaminating every veg forum they can find with, then clearly sharing any info on what I have learned is a big mistake I'll have to discontinue making.

I will start a new thread on RUG blending with one smal bit of info I have discovered recently.
_____________________

I don't give a damn about what might or could happen until a significant group of people can tell me it HAS happened to them.
Until then, it's just more endless gloom and doom Veg folk law.
David
 
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