Removing water with Sieve

Collecting, filtering and dewatering of WVO SVO vegetable oil. For Biodiesel producers too.

Moderators: SunWizard, coachgeo

Removing water with Sieve

Postby joel » Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:16 pm

In many chemical industries, having very low water content is necessary for chemical processing. Often, rather then filtering and/or drying, molecular sieve is added to the chemicals. The sieve is extremely hygroscopic and absorbs ALL the water, the sieve then sinks to the bottom. While water can be very difficult to filter out of many chemicals, the large sieve particles are very easy to filter out (sometimes bags of sieve are used). My thought is that if multi-billion dollar companies have found this to be the most cost effective way of removing water, why would it not work well on WVO? The sieve is reusable after drying too. FYI- I think this would work best on settled oil (where the settled water/gunk is left in the barrel/cubie) and after filtering particulates, which hold the most water.
I have personally used this process for years alongside PhD chemists with great results, but not on WVO. Has anyone done much experimenting with this on WVO? What were the results?
joel
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:13 pm
Location: Colorado

Postby coachgeo » Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:42 pm

do a search for Accusorb Beads. I may have spelled it wrong.
Life; It's all in the Balance

Moderator
coachgeo
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:46 am
Location: North Texas

Postby BMW Fan » Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:02 pm

Hi joel,

I know it will work. But reconditioning your sieve is rather complicated and needs either vacuum or a gas. To complicated and to impractical for the common guy.

BMW Fan


Hi George,

what makes you believe that your beads have anything in connection with the question joel is asking ?

BMW Fan
BMW Fan
 
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:48 am
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Postby joel » Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:09 pm

BMW fan,
You are correct, it often is not worth reconditioning commercially, but this is not due to the fact that it is hard to do, it's due to the fact that it's so cheap it's not worth messing with. At home you could simply heat it if so desired. The Acusorb mentioned is WAY pricy and sounds a little like snake oil (although it may work?) and “quik n dri” is way cheaper, but I don’t know anything about it.

http://www.survivalunlimited.com/biodiesel.htm

http://biodiesel.coorga.com/Quik_Order_Page.htm

The molecular sieve I have used is not kitty litter or anything like that, it's a very precise ISO certified product, but is still relatively cheap. If it were to work, the whole drying process (after basic settling/filtering) could potentially be avoided, including all the costs, time, and space requirements associated with heating/drying or centrifuges.
joel
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:13 pm
Location: Colorado

Postby BMW Fan » Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:38 am

Hi joel,

would you mind to tell „your“ method of re-conditioning the molecular sieve ?
Just using heat can’t do the job if you are concerned about the environment.
Am I wrong ?

BMW Fan
BMW Fan
 
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:48 am
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Postby joel » Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:13 pm

By "concerned about the environment" do you mean environmental impact or the amount of energy consumed?

Heating will not cause any environmental impact problems or outgassing (except for steam and a slight fryer smell. Just simply heating will normally not remove 100% of the water content, but it will remove most of it fairly easily.
If you mean the amount of energy consumed, it depends on a lot of things. I can simply through it on a large cookie sheet pan about 1" thick and place it on the wood stove I have to heat my shop to heat and dry it. In the summer a very simple (and small) homemade solar oven would probably do it too. It all depends on what you have now. Any current heat source used for space heating would work.
It can also be legally disposed of in the trash as well.
joel
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:13 pm
Location: Colorado

Postby BMW Fan » Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:16 pm

I was under the impression that you’d provide a readily tested professional method copied from your former expierience.
I’ll better stick with my centrifuge cart and get particles and water out in one step.
No need to re-heat beads.
If you want to get rid of the water you must reach at least the boiling point.
That’s when the oil starts to smoke and stink. That's the part I do not like.That’s my concern for the environment.

BMW Fan
BMW Fan
 
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:48 am
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Postby coachgeo » Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:27 pm

BMW Fan wrote:Hi George,

what makes you believe that your beads have anything in connection with the question joel is asking ?

BMW Fan
Accusorb beads and the like are said to be "hygroscopic and absorbs ALL? the water" which is a what he asked about.
Life; It's all in the Balance

Moderator
coachgeo
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:46 am
Location: North Texas

Postby joel » Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:48 pm

I was under the impression that you’d provide a readily tested professional method copied from your former expierience


We did testing and found several ways to get the water out, but it's really cheap stuff, we just scrapped it out of the screen filters and through it out.
The potential advantage of sieve over a centrifuge is you could filter on the go in the bed of a truck. Also the money involved is almost nothing and no need to add heat.
joel
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:13 pm
Location: Colorado

Postby David » Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:56 pm

BMW Fan wrote:If you want to get rid of the water you must reach at least the boiling point.
That’s when the oil starts to smoke and stink.


I would think this is not necessarily the case. As long as I have lived I have seen women hang washing on a clothes line that dried just fine and I'm pretty sure the water never came remotely near boiling point.

I don't find drying at all a costly, time consuming or a difficult thing to do. My Oil jet drying system works very well, cost easily under $100 to set up and takes up the space of 1, 205L drum. It drys oil well below what a HPT can determine so for me the cost of the electricity it uses, ( 0.15 CENTS per litre ( 0.60 Cents as in just over half a cent a gallon)) I'm very sure is going to be way cheaper than anything else.
_____________________

I don't give a damn about what might or could happen until a significant group of people can tell me it HAS happened to them.
Until then, it's just more endless gloom and doom Veg folk law.
David
 
Posts: 333
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:12 am
Location: Sydney Australia

Postby BMW Fan » Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:14 pm

Hi joel,
what is the actual cost of your molecular sieve material per kg ?
And how do you get rid of the oil witch surrounds the beads?
To dry without heat takes forever.
I still don't understand how on the go cleaning for WVO would work ?
How do you get rid of particles if the beads take care of water only ?

Hi David,
good for you that your oil jet drying system works so well. 8)
Nevertheless, you may have missed the point. :o
We are not talking about drying oil...but the water soaked beads.
You can hang em on your clothe lines as long as you want.
No water comes out. Second they are covered with oil.
Professional systems use vacuum or a gas for reconditioning.
In my opinion the available molecular sieves are not cheap enough just to throw them away.

BMW Fan
BMW Fan
 
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:48 am
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Postby joel » Sat Jan 03, 2009 11:21 pm

I still don't understand how on the go cleaning for WVO would work ?
How do you get rid of particles if the beads take care of water only ?

Just a thought, but if you suck oil off the top of resonably settled out oil at the source (which most do anyway) and then filter out the remaining particles down to 10 micron (which holds a lot of the remaining water) you would end up with very clean, just not completely dry, oil. This part is very simple. The worst of the food/water would have settled through gravity in its container and all remaining particles were then filtered, taking much of the remaining water with them. If a quantity of absorbent were then added it would attach to the remaining water giving you very clean and very dry oil. Since the sieve particles are large, you could then remove the water laden sieve out easily through a filter sock or mesh screen.

So basically draw off the top of the bin, directly through a filter or two and into clean cubbies. Add sieve and when you need fuel, pour it through a filter funnel into the tank. Clean and dry without over bringing it home.
joel
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:13 pm
Location: Colorado

Postby coachgeo » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:51 am

was the oil you tested your sieve/hydroscopic material with a volume of oil that went thru the process you just described?

Did you pretest for water levels in that oil prior to using your sieve/hydroscopic material? Since you work on the chemical world I assume you did take good scientific steps in this study you did; rather it be home grown or not, but it's best to document it in here since others will ask.

Thank you for your information and we look forward to learning more from you.
Life; It's all in the Balance

Moderator
coachgeo
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:46 am
Location: North Texas

Postby BMW Fan » Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:39 am

Hi joel,

Settling and sucking from the top of a barrel is more or less a standard.
Using a bag filter…
Adding a molecular filter is one more step and more costs.
A CF does all of that in one step.
If in a climate with abrupt temperature changes condensation is critical, then beads could be a solution to get the water out of the tank.

You wrote before:
Quote : The potential advantage of sieve over a centrifuge is you could filter on the go in the bed of a truck. Quote

This question of filtering on the go is not covered yet nor the question for the cost of the material.
If you could lead me to material witch is cheap and does not need drying I would love to repeat earlier tests I have done long ago. I’d appreciate your insight and hints were to buy a test sample.
I had no luck with drying beads using the Australian clothe line method.

BMW Fan
BMW Fan
 
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:48 am
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Postby David » Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:52 am

BMW Fan wrote:I had no luck with drying beads using the Australian clothe line method.



Perhaps you were using the wrong kind of pegs??? :D :lol: :D
_____________________

I don't give a damn about what might or could happen until a significant group of people can tell me it HAS happened to them.
Until then, it's just more endless gloom and doom Veg folk law.
David
 
Posts: 333
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:12 am
Location: Sydney Australia

Next

Return to Vegetable oil Collecting, Filtering and Dewatering

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron