You have white crap in the bottom of cubies and barrel?

Collecting, filtering and dewatering of WVO SVO vegetable oil. For Biodiesel producers too.

Moderators: SunWizard, coachgeo

You have white crap in the bottom of cubies and barrel?

Postby SunWizard » Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:13 pm

Its usually partially hydrogenated VO, PHO, if you heat it up and the milky "gunk" becomes liquid. I use PHO about half the time and it works fine in 2 tank rigs as long as your system provides enough heat and you dewater it properly. PHO IS NOT RECOMMENDED for single tank or blending.

If you heat it up >100F and it remains cloudy, its probably a water emulsion or could even be high melt point animal fat. Either of those is not good, and you need to either not burn it, or study the ways it can be dewatered. Animal fat goes rancid and smells like vomit fairly quickly.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1723
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:53 pm
Location: N. Colorado

Postby hheynow » Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:26 pm

None of my collected oil is PHO but I sometimes see a coffee cream layer at the bottom. It's usually emulsified oil and I toss it. I always get a layer of animal fat on the bottom of my cubies and I toss that too. Sure it's usable but I'm picky and am swimming in oil. :mrgreen: I give the fat laden oil away to biodieselers who only care about the titration reading.
FOR SALE: 1997 Ford F-350 7.3L PSD - Plant Drive kit
1984 Mercedes Euro 300D NA - Custom two tank
Running on used plant oil and biodiesel since May 2006
hheynow
 
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:10 pm
Location: California

Postby Burbarian » Fri Mar 07, 2008 8:33 pm

Most of my oil is like that, not just a layer.
Animal fat can also be potentially dangerous to store if you have bears and cayotes in the neighborhood. I've seen cayotes sniffing around, and have bear reports from some neighbors. Haven't had any actual trouble yet with the beasties, but you never know.
Other than turning the stuff into biodiesel, it works well when mixed with woodchips and fed to a gasifier.
Burbarian
 
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:14 pm
Location: Vermont

Postby John Galt » Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:42 pm

The PHO is good woodstove fuel, and troublesome vehicle fuel in an unheated blend. I seperate it from the clear oil and use both. Mixed with sawdust and packed into milk cartons, it makes excellent firebricks. Animals love to eat the mix, but will leave it alone if a bit of used motor oil is added to the oil/sawdust.
John Galt
 
Posts: 526
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:17 pm
Location: Coldest North America

Postby David » Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:31 am

Just today I was at a veg oilers place and he showed me some filterd and dryed oil I gane him a while back and how the bottom 3/rd of the drum had settled to fat while the top layer was nice clear oil. He had taken the majority of the oil to run in his 2 tank vehicle and was going to use the fat for bio making for his son's late model euro diesels.

My wife showed up and wanted to take my car to the relies in the country for the afternoon. I was low on oil with plenty to get home but not enought for an hour into the country and back. My friend laughed he had plenty of oil someone had given him and to grab what I wanted. He was surprised when I grabbed a couple of drums of the mainly left over fat and was worried about my wife driving on that. I assured him it would be fine in my unheated system and I could see he was still concerned.

My wife set off and we had a pleasant afternoon making Bio and the Mrs duly returned 4 hours later. He was keen to know how the car was running and was surprised when she said it was going better than normal which it tends to do on fat on the occasions I run it. We inspected the cubie I use for a fuel tank in the boot and due to the warming of the return fuel, the entire contents of the tank was liquid oil.

My fuel system is unheated and I have the changeover valve in the boot so the fuel is changed over at the source and both startup fuel and WVO are both run through the original fuel lines with no additional pump.

Another disbelieving friend also tried this liquid fat in his car and was also surprised to find the car seemed to run with better performance. As the oil he gets settles out at around 1/3rd fat, he no longer removes it but filters warm just to remove the particles in his oil. If the fat has settled out in his drums before he uses it, he gives them a shake and in it goes. As his vehicle is only ever stationary for a day at a time ( rarely) the fat gets little time to settle out again and there is plenty of liquid oil to keep the fat flowing easily.

I have tried putting the fuel pickup directly in settled fat and the car ran perfectly. The mechanical lift pump seems to have no problem.

People seem to dismiss fat in their oil automatically but I have to wonder how many people have actually tested it in their car rather than just write it off as a bad thing because thats what everyone else seems to do and they go with the flow?
David
 
Posts: 333
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:12 am
Location: Sydney Australia

Postby SunWizard » Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:46 am

I agree with you. I have found that when I burn PHO in my 2 tank rig, it burns cleaner than other VO. I can tell by the smell of the exhaust, which varies widely on different VOs. I sometimes burn un-used but solid at room temp soy PHO, and it makes no smell at all! Even better than unused canola.

I think this may be due to PHO has the lowest (best) IV of all the types of VO. See the polymerization thread where I just posted about IV. I have noted a direct relationship with the lower IV oils making the least offensive exhaust odor.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1723
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:53 pm
Location: N. Colorado

Postby David » Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:25 am

It think your spot on regarding the smell. It's more like BBQ than anything else and being animal fat, it's obviously has the most BBQ like composition.

I really haven't given much thought to the fats being hydrogenated or otherwise, it's fat, (or at least not oil) it burns fine and that's about it. I haven't done much with the solid stuff but I certainly sympathize with the people that have to use it. It must be so much more difficult to work with than the thick, but always liquid material I avoid anyway.

I was talking to a friend about trying a blend of solid oil fat and clear liquid oil and seeing if that just resulted in a thicker liquid with the fat eventually settling out into a still pumpable medium of if it would set up hard again.
The truth is I have so much oil now after working to acquire almost 20 primary sources and as many secondary ones, the extra work in digging fat out of drums, heating and filtering it all all the extra complication.

There is plenty of fat round here, at least as much as oil so if the liquid ever gets hard to find at least there is a fallback.
David
 
Posts: 333
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:12 am
Location: Sydney Australia

Postby hheynow » Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:19 am

I recall reading that fat laden oil has a higher cetane rating than clear oil but can't remember the source. I still have no problem giving it away to biodieselers. The fatty oil clogs my 200 micron drum screen when I filter cold and that's how my first pour through a course screen is...cold.
FOR SALE: 1997 Ford F-350 7.3L PSD - Plant Drive kit
1984 Mercedes Euro 300D NA - Custom two tank
Running on used plant oil and biodiesel since May 2006
hheynow
 
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:10 pm
Location: California

Postby Burbarian » Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:19 pm

David, good info. I know it burns well in a stove and gasifier, but haven't tried straight lard in the engines yet. Will have to make a sturdy HIH and heated pickup for winter use.
Burbarian
 
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:14 pm
Location: Vermont

Postby Burbarian » Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:53 pm

hheynow wrote:I recall reading that fat laden oil has a higher cetane rating than clear oil but can't remember the source.



Paraffins exhibit the highest cetane index, aromatics the lowest.
http://www.refiningonline.com/engelhard ... CR4_32.htm

I suspect animal fats would have similar properties. Biodiesel made from animal fats have a higher cetane rating than bd made from vegetable oils. It seems logical to assume that neat animal fat would likewise exhibit the same characteristic, but that is purely speculative on my part.
Burbarian
 
Posts: 195
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:14 pm
Location: Vermont

Postby David » Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:57 pm

I gave Bio making friend a qty of animal fat a while back to make some bio with. We were kind of hoping it would make bit of a super fuel ( comparatively) to justify the extra effort. The color was nice, almost clear but neither of us could discern any performance difference and we have quite different cars.

We have have both tried warming up a cubee of solid fat and running that and both agreed that gave a noticeable boost over veg oil and Bio, mainly lower down the rev range. I tried this on a not particularly warm day and was worried about the fat cooling off and solidifying. When I arrived home after the 30 min test drive, I was surprised to find the fat was actually warmer than when I put it in.

For a person in a warm climate who had plenty of animal fat but was short on oil, for long trips where the contents of the tank, say a cubie could be all used up in one go, this could make a good fuel without the need to go to all the fuss of heated fuel lines etc.
David
 
Posts: 333
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:12 am
Location: Sydney Australia


Return to Vegetable oil Collecting, Filtering and Dewatering

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron