wvo generator and biodiesel stove

For discussing the modifications needed for diesel vehicles to run with 2 tank veggie oil conversions.

Moderators: SunWizard, coachgeo

wvo generator and biodiesel stove

Postby georges » Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:37 pm

Please look at the wvo/svo/biodiesel generator demonstration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BQzfrnl ... re=channel
I installed it in my truck to make demonstration all over Miami, if you are ever around, just give me a call and I will schedule a time to make you a demonstration.
This generator works with waste cooking oil, jatropha oil, castor oil, cooking oil and biodiesel and even waste motor oil.

Also look at: the biodiesel stove prototype demonstration, next we will be working on the biodiesel barbecue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDZQUSiT_vg

Georges Valme
website: www.haaionline.com
Email: ContactHAAI@gmail.com
georges
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:53 am

Postby coachgeo » Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:38 pm

Good luck with you project their Georges.

Would think many here would be interested in your long term success. Generators run on straight oil have a poor reputation. They Coke up easy. Your fuel heater may just be the ticket though to help prevent this.

Have you adusted the timing at all? You might get even greater longevity of the engine by creating a more full burn of the fuel by adjusting your timing. I believe the suggestion is to retard timing a little. You WANT THE DIESEL KNOCK sound is what some have stated. This means the engine is running closer to a peak combustion of the fuel.

NOTE- below you will see that I was corrected... you want to advance your timing a little and not retard.
Last edited by coachgeo on Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Life; It's all in the Balance

Moderator
coachgeo
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:46 am
Location: North Texas

Postby SunWizard » Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:41 pm

coachgeo wrote:I believe the suggestion is to retard timing a little. You WANT THE DIESEL KNOCK sound is what some have stated. This means the engine is running closer to a peak combustion of the fuel.

For most engines thats wrong advice: advance the timing about 4 degrees. See: Quieter engine on VO is not better
Last edited by SunWizard on Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:49 am, edited 3 times in total.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1719
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:53 pm
Location: N. Colorado

Postby coachgeo » Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:43 pm

SunWizard wrote:
coachgeo wrote:I believe the suggestion is to retard timing a little. You WANT THE DIESEL KNOCK sound is what some have stated. This means the engine is running closer to a peak combustion of the fuel.

For most engines thats wrong advice: advance the timing about 4 degrees.
thanks sun.... I was racking my brain trying to remember which it was..... retard or advance. figured someone would correct me if I blew it.
Life; It's all in the Balance

Moderator
coachgeo
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:46 am
Location: North Texas

Postby coachgeo » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:19 pm

ok.... im confused lol. just re read the thread with the crossbones quotes etc.

In there (or something linked off of there) it was mentioned that you advance timing by retarding the pump... or something like that.

soooo which are we talking about.... when we talk timing? We need to be clear if we are speaking of what you physically do with the pump or what happens in the cylinder.

Another words.... do we retard the pump to produce a more advanced ignition point?
Life; It's all in the Balance

Moderator
coachgeo
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:46 am
Location: North Texas

wvo generator

Postby georges » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:45 pm

This generator is not our regular diesel generator, it was built specially to handle wvo,svo, it has a small tank of 2 gallons of diesel for oil and another 5 gallon tanks that is usually place at the bottom of the generator. One can install a 55 gallon drum or a tote of 250 gallons as a tank depending on the use of the generator, I did not want to pay extra for there external tank.
The wvo has to be dry with no water content and filtered to a minimum of 5 micron.
It is built with stainless steel piston rings to handle the acidity of the oil.
I use a manual switch to make demonstration and place the fuel pump as well as the heating element on top of the generator so everyone can see how it operates.
When I switch from diesel to wvo, the engine does not loose power, it is just the smell at the exhaust that change to French fries. 5 minutes after starting the oil is hot enough to 180 degrees and I do the switching and I have to return to diesel 5 minutes before I turn off the generator.
May be for a car or a regular diesel generator with the usual piston rings it is necessary to move the timing 3 to 4 degrees ahead to compensate for the 15% loss due to the lower fuel efficiency of wvo, but for this generator it does not apply.
I will be getting the informations on how to obtain the kits for anyone who want to convert there regular diesel generator and where they can obtain it and I believe it is 3 times cheaper than what is being sold out there now.
That same system of heating the wvo is available for 4 cylinder diesel generator and certainly can be apply for a diesel car conversion with an automatic switching system to use wvo/svo in a diesel powered vehicle.

I bought 2 of the wvo generators, one for my business that I have installed one in my van and the second one, I will be installing it home and request the net metering system and I will be able to use all the wvo that I am getting and sell the extra power to the electric grid.
In a few month, I will be getting a check instead of paying for electricity.
georges
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:53 am

Postby coachgeo » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:10 pm

My home is off the grid opperating at 12v and charged via a diesel genset (Yanmar). My goal is to eventually power this off of WVO.

I would be interested in your conversion kit.

buttt.... still seems to me you need to adjust timing.

Coking does not care what a material is made up of. Inefficient combustion creates coking and it attaches itself to something somewhere. Making somethings more robust with better materials is smart move.... IMHO though it does not negate the need to adjust the timing to creat complete combustion with the fuel being used; it only helps the engine survive the torture longer.

You migh consider doing both?? Use your beefier materials AND adjust the timing. Your engine should then last even longer and be more efficient.
Life; It's all in the Balance

Moderator
coachgeo
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:46 am
Location: North Texas

timing of wvo generator

Postby georges » Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:37 pm

You are probably right and beside why take chances, I will try to advance the timing few degrees this week-end.
As soon as I have the info, I will post the information on how to obtain the conversion kits for generators or email me at borsalino12000@yahoo.com next week, I will certainly have the info..
georges
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:53 am

Re: wvo generator

Postby BMW Fan » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:30 pm

georges wrote:It is built with stainless steel piston rings to handle the acidity of the oil.

May be for a car or a regular diesel generator with the usual piston rings it is necessary to move the timing 3 to 4 degrees ahead to compensate for the 15% loss due to the lower fuel efficiency of wvo, but for this generator it does not apply.
I


I beg your pardon but would you mind to explain what’s special with steel piston rings ???????????

What got piston rings to do with timing ????????

BMW Fan
BMW Fan
 
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:48 am
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

wvo generator

Postby georges » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:31 pm

Please read what I wrote: they replaced the piston rings with stainless steel rings to handle the acidity of the wvo oil, it has nothing to do with the timing.
this generator does not have any heavy knocking noise like the other regular diesel engines even when it is running on diesel. and it run the same on diesel and wvo.
However I have to say that stainless steel rings retain there tension under the most brutal forces better than cast iron rings and probably that is why it is not knocking.
However due to the possibility of coking from using wvo, it may not be a bad idea to move the timing a few degrees.

The manufacturer provide a 1 year warranty for this generator, I do not think if they did not have there stuff right they will provide that 1 year warranty on this generator, include coking.
georges
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:53 am

Re: wvo generator

Postby BMW Fan » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:18 pm

georges wrote:Please read what I wrote: they replaced the piston rings with stainless steel rings to handle the acidity of the wvo oil, it has nothing to do with the timing.
this generator does not have any heavy knocking noise like the other regular diesel engines even when it is running on diesel. and it run the same on diesel and wvo.
However I have to say that stainless steel rings retain there tension under the most brutal forces better than cast iron rings and probably that is why it is not knocking.
However due to the possibility of coking from using wvo, it may not be a bad idea to move the timing a few degrees.

The manufacturer provide a 1 year warranty for this generator, I do not think if they did not have there stuff right they will provide that 1 year warranty on this generator, include coking.



So if I have what you call regular rings I most adjust timing ?
Is that what you are saying ?

In all the years I’m running on veggie none of my piston rings ever were destroyed or harmed by acidic oil.
What kind of proof do you have for your theory ?
I’m always interested to learn something new.
It seems you got no long term experience with your generator.
Is that correct ?

BMW Fan
BMW Fan
 
Posts: 225
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:48 am
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

wvo generator

Postby georges » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:06 pm

I am not saying you have to adjust anything; you need to ask COACHGEO who came with that idea of adjusting the timing, and his statement make some sense due to coke deposits.
I only had that generator only for the past two month with no issues or problems and as you have stated, I do not have long term experience with that kind of generator and the manufacturer does not provide any statement for advancing the timing for my case, I am just learning about advancing the timing on this site however I am having doubt because my generator runs the same with no heavy knoking on diesel and wvo, why should I try to fix something that is not broken and that the manufacturer made specifically to use wvo.
I am glad that you had long term experience with a regular diesel engine and using wvo with no major issues, you experience can be useful to us all because I intend to produce my own electricity and that is a lot of working hours on those small generators, the less mistakes I make and the more I learn from long time users the better I will be.
Now you have open my eyes that getting those kits to retrofit old diesel generators may be as good as buying a new one. Since I am in the wvo business collection, I have some work to plan on converting regular diesel generators to wvo generators and I can sell more wvo.
If on your side you have some advice, please fell free to provide it to us.
georges
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:53 am

Re: wvo generator

Postby coachgeo » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:21 pm

BMW Fan wrote:...So if I have what you call regular rings I most adjust timing ? ...
no that was not said either.

I brought up the timing issue not he. My point was about a more complete combustion. The discussion about timing had nothing to do with the rings being SS.

somewhere in your reading BMW you missread something, or the way I wrote it was a bit missleading unintentionaly by myself. It happens. Just know that the discussion on timing in this thread is about the potential for coking being less with a timing adjustment and nothing to do with the rings. Sorry if my text was in someway missleading.

Georges are you aware that a pattern in the studies on WVO fuel use seems to show that more constant load running engines like gensets and tractors have a higher probability of coking up on both diesel and veg.? Buttt greatly so when run on veg.!! Granted many of the studies have been flawed in one way or another but still that pattern did emerge .

Auto engines less of an issue and the assumption has been that the variable load auto engines go thru daily, seems to make them coke less. Not enough so to prevent coking, but still none the less they coke not as easily. Now if the WVO system installed is a poor one, it will coke no matter what.



So then it has been sorta sumized by most in the WVO fueling world that if a properly desinged WVO fuel system is installed on an auto or truck; then coking potential is increased only somewhat to none. Due to this you might increase your maintainace intervals a little bit but not hugely. For example a lot of folk change their oil twice as often.

Not so true on constant load diesels like gensets... it appears you need to significantly increase your maintaince intervals cause coking appears to show up sooner than normal. Granted though in the studies that showed this; if I recall right, no one adjusted the engine timing to accomidate the ignition characteristics of WVO.

The manufacture of your engine may have their published maintainance intervals increased to match WVO already, since it seems your saying that have intentionaly modified the engines at the factory for WVO use. You might check with the factory on that. In fact also check with them about how they time the engines at the factory; it's possible they have timed the engines differently too. Would be interesting to find out if they did that already or not. Let us know what you find out.
Last edited by coachgeo on Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Life; It's all in the Balance

Moderator
coachgeo
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:46 am
Location: North Texas

wvo generators

Postby georges » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:40 pm

You guys are really good, I am learning a lot tonight, first is that wvo works if it it use properly from coachgeo.
Second it can work for a long time due to the long term experience of some like BMW fan, and third that that most diesel generators can be retrofit with the kit to run properly on wvo.
I am almost positive that coachgeo has the proper installation on his system.
georges
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 7:53 am

Postby coachgeo » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:48 pm

BMW Fan wrote:....I understand now that georges is very enthusiastic about his product and is full of good will but has no long term experience to back up his statements....
yeah, thats the feeling I got too. That's why I threw out there a ruff synopsis of the WVO studies using gensets and tractors.

My ruff synopsis may be too ruff creating some inaccuracies... Im sure you guys will bring that up if that is the case.

BTW, you guys might want to reread my post. Looks like I was editing them and trying to improve them to be not misleading and to be more informative at the same time you guys were responding.
Last edited by coachgeo on Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Life; It's all in the Balance

Moderator
coachgeo
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:46 am
Location: North Texas

Next

Return to 2 Tank veggie oil conversion and General discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron