New Manual Valve Idea

For discussing the modifications needed for diesel vehicles to run with 2 tank veggie oil conversions.

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New Manual Valve Idea

Postby VegMeister » Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:38 am

Hey guys I have this idea in my head but I've never seen in described anywhere else:

Image



Explanation: When started, the veg 12v pump is turned off and the diesel 12v pump is on. To switch, you first change the 3-way valve (manually controlled with a rod through the firewall which you twist) to return to the veg tank, then open the ball valve in the cab of the truck. Then you turn on the veg 12v pump and finally turn off the diesel lift pump. This will perform a gradual changeover (and might even dilute the lines going out to the tank in the bed, in case your lines are not totally hot yet).

To Dump To Tank you just turn on the diesel pump, off the veg pump and then close the ball valve. All the return is then dumped to the veg tank. However, the veg oil in filter stays there (because of the ball valve. Read: quicker changeovers).

Advantages:
1. All the lines outside the engine compartment are flushed of veg oil before you turn off the truck.
2. You can watch for when the system has been purged (via a short section of poly tubing on the return).
3. You can catch and watch for air bubbles using the same section of tubing, if it's bent into a graduate vertical arc before T-ing back into the line.
4. Small modifications to the existing fuel system (splice in a T, splice in a 3-way valve, splice in a check valve).


Will this work? This seems to be a perfect setup for me, as I don't mind having a small ball valve mounted at the base of my shifter. Is the check valve even needed? I've heard check valves don't work for veg oil but in my system it's only on the diesel side of things.
centralvalleybiodiesel CF
1993 GMC Sierra K2500 6.5L + homebuilt veg kit, OEM glowplug failure (update: rebuilt with a 6.2 block, working fine)
1988 Ford 6.9L OEM dual tank, 90+% veg oil blend.
1989 Ford 7.3L, 80+% veg oil blend.
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Postby SunWizard » Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:04 pm

Looks like it would work. Check valves are already in many pumps. Take your 2nd pump and try to pump some backwards through the 1st pump to find out. Check valves work on veg unless you get poly build up making them stick partly open. I think thats rare since there's no air at that point in the system.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
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Postby Welder » Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:28 pm

SunWizard wrote:Looks like it would work. Check valves are already in many pumps. Take your 2nd pump and try to pump some backwards through the 1st pump to find out. Check valves work on veg unless you get poly build up making them stick partly open. I think thats rare since there's no air at that point in the system.


I wonder if the issue of vegpoly forming on the sealing surfaces of a check valve makes it worth the cost to upgrade to stainless steel check valves?

What about nylon valves? Are they available?

I hope nobodys using copper valves!
"Is there anybody out there?"

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Postby SunWizard » Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:31 pm

The most common check valves are brass which is mostly copper. With no air exposure they are probably OK. I used brass hose barbs all over the place and they have no poly.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Postby VegMeister » Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:33 pm

I've changed the location of the check valve for no other reason than it requires less splicing of the existing fuel system.

Is it going to be a problem having clear poly tubing on the return veg line? Right next to my shifter?
centralvalleybiodiesel CF
1993 GMC Sierra K2500 6.5L + homebuilt veg kit, OEM glowplug failure (update: rebuilt with a 6.2 block, working fine)
1988 Ford 6.9L OEM dual tank, 90+% veg oil blend.
1989 Ford 7.3L, 80+% veg oil blend.
VegMeister
 
Posts: 86
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Location: Pembine, WI

Postby SunWizard » Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:50 pm

VegMeister wrote:Is it going to be a problem having clear poly tubing on the return veg line? Right next to my shifter?

It might be, that depends on its temp and pressure ratings.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Postby Burbarian » Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:04 pm

You can use a short length of glass tubing. If you don't plan to use biodiesel, clear polycarbonate tubing could be used.
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Postby John Galt » Sun Mar 09, 2008 1:20 pm

VegMeister wrote: Is it going to be a problem having clear poly tubing on the return veg line? Right next to my shifter?

Clear "poly" might not withstand the temperature of the fuel at that point.
Something like a metal and glass inline fuel filter would be better
Image
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Last edited by John Galt on Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:09 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Postby canolafunola » Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:14 pm

I have used a piece of clear polycarbonate tubing in the return line (SVO) for 50k miles without problems. I think a clear PVC line is ok up to 180F, maybe even a few degrees higher, but not just any PVC. Get something with 1/8 wall with a good plasticizer (not the crap from Home Depot) and use constant spring tension clamps and I think you'll be ok.
93 Gulfstream RV w Cummins 5.9 diesel pusher
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Postby coachgeo » Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:13 pm

ImageThese cheap ones some have reported are made with too much knickle in them and like galvanized stuff they start to fall apart under the presence of WVO. Some just leak air to easy. They are not really designed to be sucked thru. The more spendy ones made of better material seem to have less issue. Also one of the WVO venders sells something in plastic for this.

I got a free sample it is seems to be ok.

get them at Get them here I have NO AFFILIATION with this company of any sorts.
Life; It's all in the Balance

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Postby Burbarian » Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:50 pm

1/8" wall polycarbonate is good for 300F. I use polycarb and nylon on the non metallic parts of my low pressure hydraulics.
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Postby John Galt » Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:58 pm

These cheap ones


Your message could be misunderstood to imply I was recommending a cheap product that would fail. Was that your intent?
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Postby VegMeister » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:53 am

Hey guys thanks for the input. Since I want to make an air trap here on the circuit, any ideas for a good air trap? Maybe just a filter unit mounted upside down?

But having a filter seems kinda stupid AFTER the IP... I guess it's one last chance to filter stuff that hasn't gone through the actual injector YET.
centralvalleybiodiesel CF
1993 GMC Sierra K2500 6.5L + homebuilt veg kit, OEM glowplug failure (update: rebuilt with a 6.2 block, working fine)
1988 Ford 6.9L OEM dual tank, 90+% veg oil blend.
1989 Ford 7.3L, 80+% veg oil blend.
VegMeister
 
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:12 am
Location: Pembine, WI

Postby Welder » Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:28 am

I don't think you'll find too many in-line filters that have dimenions compatable with the mounting surfaces that injection lines fit to. If you do, they likely won't be capable of handling commonly encountered injection line pressures.

If you were to somehow find filters that fit the need, you'd need one for each injector. I think they'd be expensive, not to mention the custom injection lines you'd also need in order to accomodate the filters (shorter than the originals).

No, it wasn't a "stupid" idea. Just an impractical one, that's all. I've got a tight monopoly over all the truly stupid ideas!
"Is there anybody out there?"

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Postby VegMeister » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:47 am

Welder: I totally miscommunicated myself. I meant to put the filter unit at the "*" on my diagram... in my cab, on the return,. right before it Ts into the supply.

Of course I wouldn't put a filter on the injector lines.
centralvalleybiodiesel CF
1993 GMC Sierra K2500 6.5L + homebuilt veg kit, OEM glowplug failure (update: rebuilt with a 6.2 block, working fine)
1988 Ford 6.9L OEM dual tank, 90+% veg oil blend.
1989 Ford 7.3L, 80+% veg oil blend.
VegMeister
 
Posts: 86
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:12 am
Location: Pembine, WI

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