toasterwire for preheating VO in injectors prior to starting

Single Tank WVO systems and blending SVO WVO to thin it.

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toasterwire for preheating VO in injectors prior to starting

Postby 3lr » Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:40 am

has anyone ever mused the idea of using plentiful 110V electricity to preheat
VO in injectors prior to starting - utilizing toaster wire?
toasters generally use 1200 -1500 watts which would be excessive
therefore repeated 5 second cycles in 10 second intervals might be workable!? also a much shorter run of nichrome wire vs its use in a toaster
will significantly reduce the power required. what would be a suitable high heat insulator, is mica available as a sheath?

this is for a 2 tank sys with coolant heated lines therefore no conventional 12V injector line heaters

any ideas?

john
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Postby 240Volvo » Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:32 pm

The purpose of ILH is not to pre-heat, it is to add heat at the point of injection, which produces a finer mist and more complete combustion, whether it is 2 tank or not. This combined with higher pop pressure for the injectors and advanced injection timing produces much improved performance with VO.

When fuel passes through the IP, it loses temperature, and ILH help to offset that loss. Too high a temp before the IP can damage it.
1984 Volvo 240 diesel with a single tank Elsbett conversion: electric fuel filter heater, FPHE, glow plugs, and injectors. Also injector line heaters and block heater, running 20%kero/80%WVO winter blend.
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Postby John Galt » Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:20 pm

has anyone ever mused the idea of using plentiful 110V electricity to preheat
Yup. nearly every time before the truck is 'cold started', i.e. cooled to ambient temperature. A 50W blanket heater [battery blanket] plus a 500W coolant heater in the lower rad hose brings the temperature monitored where the fuel line enters the #1 injector up to 30-40°C before the truck is started. Clean, smoke free starts at any temperature, including below zero.
A FPHE before the filter and IP boosts fuel temperature to 60-70°C at normal operating temperature.
Fuel blend components include, ULSD, biodiesel, clear recycled veg-oil, kerosene, and jetB fuel, seasonally adjusted. The mix burns very clean for tailpipe emissions [Opacity 0%, HC 10 ppm, CO 0.01%] in an '89 3.4L T-DI.
Preheating provides cleaner starts and less engine deposits.
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Postby jburke » Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:56 am

"any ideas? "

I use a 1500W AC powered block heater to pre-warm my VW TDI to 110*F
in about an hour. very commonly used in colder climates.
working great for over 5 years.

here's one from Agway (i think) i installed:
http://ctbiodzl.freeshell.org/con_pics/IMG_0077_cRS.jpg


www.tdiheater.com
called ZeroStarts, and available as 'tank heater' at JCWhitney
and Agway for tractors for $50 - $70 bucks
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Postby 3lr » Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:23 pm

sorry let me clarify a bit... this is for an intertrashional 7.3 IDI NA the entirety of the injector lines runs will be taken up!
there will be a modestly sized FPHE before the stanadyne IP, then post IP... coolant heatexchangers all the way to the unions on the
injectors where I propose to place the nichrome wrap. the fuel return line caps look like they are ABS therefore will likely warp
nessesitating turning some alu replacements - that will never have to be replaced AGAIN ;~>

yes block heater is on the shopping list, battery blanket(s) - beautiful idea!
I am going to weld up a partial car cover (for the engine compartment) made of mylar and some select fabrics for really
nippy mornings.
1.5 KW hmmmmmmmmm, I think I would consider getting a garage and using that juice instead to charge batteries for some kind of electric
transpo.
higher pop pressure and advanced ip timing will be implemented as well.. but this concept is purely for starting
although my rig has a 21.5 : 1 is it a bit tired ;-( glowplug system will also be restored and a huff of propane goes
a long, long way - but imagine what a 200 - 250f squirt of fuel will do for cold starts not to mention preventing ring coking!


I am looking for input on a design...
also what is the max temp VO the stanadyne pumps can handle?

thank you,
john :)
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Postby SunWizard » Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:13 pm

3lr wrote:but imagine what a 200 - 250f squirt of fuel will do for cold starts not to mention preventing ring coking!

It will do nothing to prevent coking. The temp of your coolant and block and glowplugs is what matters for that.

Coking at startup on D2 is nothing to worry about, its mostly an issue for single tank rigs, not 2 tank as you are doing. (even on single tank its a rare problem.) Its also bad to heat D2 up to those temps.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Postby 3lr » Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:20 am

"It will do nothing to prevent coking. The temp of your coolant and block and glowplugs is what matters for that.

Coking at startup on D2 is nothing to worry about, its mostly an issue for single tank rigs, not 2 tank as you are doing. (even on single tank its a rare problem.) Its also bad to heat D2 up to those temps."

yes it will be a 2 tank sys BUT I am contemplating on taking advantage of >120f ambient days and starting it on a blend and possibly on straight VO
when conditions are favorable. it is a 10 mpg vehicle at best (old style high roof cargo box) therefore avoiding purchasing #2 as much as possible however the focus here are unproblematic starts. a promising design for a solar powered heat exchanger using thermal oil will be able to get the coolant close to operating temps.
water injection will also be employed...

"Coking at startup on D2 is nothing to worry about"

i rebuilt numerous diesel VWs as well as Benzes
they all had carbon deposits in the ring grooves
some rings were compromised while others had
been completely immobilized. mind you this was
on #2 - in the 80's long before ppl started vegging
here in the US.
EVERY aircooled VW GASOLINE motor with a significant
amount of acquired miles i redid had rings that were stuck
or were going to be - despite the way californians treat them!
Those cylinder walls get >>HOT<<.
in my experience "italian tuneup" is just a cute term.

back to the drawinng board.
anybody, anybody?
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Postby coachgeo » Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:33 am

once it is running..... what will be your driving mode. Short stop and goes and shut down, or long drive times (how long) with few shut downs between orrr?
Life; It's all in the Balance

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Postby SunWizard » Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:04 am

3lr wrote:"
yes it will be a 2 tank sys BUT I am contemplating on taking advantage of >120f ambient days and starting it on a blend and possibly on straight VO
when conditions are favorable.

Conditions are never favorable for starting on VO in a cold engine, even at 120F. If you have a 2 tank rig, the best way to operate is purge at shutdown. With a properly designed rig, this uses very little D2. And at 120F ambient you can switch to VO sooner than most can since the coolant warms quicker.

If your engine is so worn that you are coking rings on D2 at startup due to blowby, then heating the D2 to 250F isn't going to help. A rebuild is all that will help. An engine that worn I wouldn't run on a blend for startup, since that will greatly speed up any coking, plus you get VO into the crankcase which can cause very quick destruction.

With a 2 tank rig I wouldn't run any engine on blend at startup, since the main benefit (to the engine) of 2 tank over single tank is at startup.

Another thing to consider is that your stanadyne IP design is known to be weak, and starting on a high% blend can snap the shaft. There are many reports of this, as well as snapping it when you switchover from D2 to VO. Here is a guy who has snapped 4 IPs in 15k miles:
People who damaged their engines and how?
Try to always switchover at idle speed.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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