Need advice on heated injector lines

For discussing the modifications needed for diesel vehicles to run with 2 tank veggie oil conversions.

Moderators: SunWizard, coachgeo

Postby BMW Fan » Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:31 am

Hi Clay,

if your ILH's work for you, thumbs up.
I can't compare if the workmanship is better now.
Maybe after 2 years they figured how to supply a better quality.
Or it was just a single " Monday" problem and I got the citron.
I sure have no intention to throw in more money and repeat the test.
As I said insulating the lines gives me a similar effect, good enough for me.

Klaus
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Postby 240Volvo » Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:52 am

Hi, Klaus

What did you use to secure the insulation, which I assume was pipe foam, or?

I know what you mean about Monday's, who knows...

Best,

Clay
1984 Volvo 240 diesel with a single tank Elsbett conversion: electric fuel filter heater, FPHE, glow plugs, and injectors. Also injector line heaters and block heater, running 20%kero/80%WVO winter blend.
240Volvo
 
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Postby BMW Fan » Fri Mar 14, 2008 7:09 pm

Hi Clay,

I'll try to find a picture but at the moment I got to prepare for the next storm. More snow, more ice. I start hating it.

Klaus
BMW Fan
 
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Postby 240Volvo » Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:03 pm

Good luck with your storm prep, Klaus! Spring is coming!

There is no hurry, just to satisfy my curiosity when you have the time.
1984 Volvo 240 diesel with a single tank Elsbett conversion: electric fuel filter heater, FPHE, glow plugs, and injectors. Also injector line heaters and block heater, running 20%kero/80%WVO winter blend.
240Volvo
 
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Location: New Jersey

Postby penguy » Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:14 pm

Very interesting to read all the remarks on heating the injector lines. When I made my first check on temps with out line heaters I used the $29 infared temp sensor from Harbor Freight. It was easy to use, just point the laser and read the temp. That is how I got the injector temps in my first posting. Nope, I have no connection to Harbor Freight. My wife just says it is one of my jewelry stores.

We are on the road to the west coast burning WVO.
Dana
1997 Dodge, 2 tank sys, SunWizard Model
2000 Jetta TDI waiting for conversion
1980 Silver Eagle, DD6V92 waiting
6/1 Listeroid just loafing
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Postby TsTDI » Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:57 pm

SunWizard wrote:Slight emission benefits is all I have seen documented. My VO always comes out of my FPHE at 160-180F, and gets heated higher by the IP and injectors.


Sorry to bring back a relatively old thread but this is of interest to me. Doesn't slight emission benefits also mean that the VO is burning more efficiently??

It makes sense to me that heating the VO hotter and hotter makes atomization improve because you are getting closer to the viscosity of regular D2. The problem is...you don't want anything hotter than 190 going into your IP. ACREVO did a study and at 302F canola oil was exhibiting similar properties of that of diesel fuel.

http://www.biomatnet.org/secure/Fair/F484.htm (link)

Injection line heaters IMO are a great way of a final heat before the injectors and avoiding excessive heat at the IP.

Also is there any proof to the IP heating up the oil??? I have heard two schools of thought on this one. One saying the IP acts as a heat sink and taking away some of the heat. The other saying it provides more heat by the pressure increase. Heating the lines would do away with this concern/question whether it being true or not because you know for sure the oil is 200 plus going to the injectors, not assuming 160-180 judging off your pre IP temp sendor. Just my two cents.

By the way... this is my first post on these forums and I love the quality of information. I am coming from the TDIclub and trying to get info over there on WVO is a joke. I have found my new home.... :wink:
TsTDI
 
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Postby 240Volvo » Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:09 pm

Hi, Ts

Welcome to this forum, and I agree. Sunwizard has done us all a great service here!

I would share one recent experience related to this topic. One morning recently, I experienced hard AM starting. It was a little cooler than normal overnight (68F), and I had already begun my summer unblended fuel. I couldn't figure what was wrong, and my mechanic found that the relay to my electric fuel filter was fried. I figured maybe I had a little animal fat making its way into my fuel with the recent very hot weather, and the fuel filter wasn't melting the residual fat. The next morning, I had the same problem, and then I noticed that the wire from my fuse box to the ILH relay had become disconnected. I reconnected it, and the starting was back to normal. So, this indicates that even the 3+ amp draw per injector line is making a difference.
1984 Volvo 240 diesel with a single tank Elsbett conversion: electric fuel filter heater, FPHE, glow plugs, and injectors. Also injector line heaters and block heater, running 20%kero/80%WVO winter blend.
240Volvo
 
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Postby BMW Fan » Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:17 am

Hello Clay,

I do not agree :) and I know that does not surprise you. :wink:
First, you do not know since when your relay was fried and when the wire came loose, correct ?
Maybe that happened already 2 month ago ? How do we know?
Second, you don't know but guess that there were animal fats.
So let's assume there were fats.
Now, after playing some days...the AM temperature is up and there are no fats anymore ( or melted ) and you are back to normal.
Got nothing to do with your line heaters.

Just a thought.

Klaus
BMW Fan
 
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Postby 240Volvo » Sat Jun 28, 2008 7:39 am

Hi, Klaus

I always welcome your ideas!

It is possible that the relay had been fried for a little while, as we had 2 weeks of very hot weather. The thought about animal fats was just speculation on my part, made the one day that I had a cool night and harder starting. I had the relay replaced immediately. That night was again cool. The next day, still hard starting. Found the wire loose, connected it, and no more hard starting. The cool weather continued, so the conditions otherwise where unchanged. Only difference was the ILH connection. Maybe I am missing something else?

Thanks again!
1984 Volvo 240 diesel with a single tank Elsbett conversion: electric fuel filter heater, FPHE, glow plugs, and injectors. Also injector line heaters and block heater, running 20%kero/80%WVO winter blend.
240Volvo
 
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Location: New Jersey

Postby BMW Fan » Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:51 am

Hi Clay,

to many uncertainties IMHO.
You got lucky anyway if your “DL” line heaters lasted so long.
Most people report broken / shorted out / connections after
some days and that's what I experienced, too.

Have a nice weekend

Klaus
BMW Fan
 
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Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 6:48 am
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada

Postby David » Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:35 pm

While lots of people swear by these line heaters, To me they defy the rules and logic of physics.
I have read debates on the thing before but to me the numbers and circumstances just don't add up.

I people get the results they want form them, then I guess that is a good thing and makes them worthwhile.

Does anyone know if these sorts of heaters have ever been used in any sort of OEM application and have any specifics thereof?
_____________________

I don't give a damn about what might or could happen until a significant group of people can tell me it HAS happened to them.
Until then, it's just more endless gloom and doom Veg folk law.
David
 
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Postby 240Volvo » Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:30 pm

I did not use the connectors that came with the ILHs. My mechanic thought that it was a bad idea to use connectors that could not be disconnected for future service, so I used better connectors. Could have done better making the patch to the fuse box!
1984 Volvo 240 diesel with a single tank Elsbett conversion: electric fuel filter heater, FPHE, glow plugs, and injectors. Also injector line heaters and block heater, running 20%kero/80%WVO winter blend.
240Volvo
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:34 am
Location: New Jersey

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