Carbon On Injector After 5000 Miles

Single Tank WVO systems and blending SVO WVO to thin it.

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Carbon On Injector After 5000 Miles

Postby Turbogeno » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:49 am

I’ve been blending with 5-10% rug for the last 5000 miles or so since I got and tuned up the car. The nozzles are new Monark’s and pop test around 2000 psi. I get temps of 160-180°F at the injectors with the line heaters on. I took a look at an injector the other day and saw more carbon than I would have liked. The spray pattern looked good before and after cleaning. At this time I attribute the carbon to delayed ignition. I just put 300 miles on the car using a blend of 80% WVO and 20% diesel. I need more time but the car feels like it’s running on 100% diesel. I think I’ll stay with a diesel blend for a while and see how the injectors look.

My timing is about 2° advanced. I have good compression and my mileage has been good, 27-30 MPG.

How many of you look at your injectors and what do you think of mine? One of my clients is a Mack dealership. One of the mechanics took a look at the pic and came to the same conclusion as me. BTW the injector internals were spotless.

Injector Pic

Thanks, Geno
1985 MB 300D. 215k. Home made 2 tank conversion.
MB 300D
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Postby SunWizard » Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:23 am

I agree thats too much carbon for only 5000 miles. Far more than either of my Mercedes gets. Are you getting much smoke at startup (or other times)?
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
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Postby Turbogeno » Fri Jul 31, 2009 11:46 am

The only time I see any smoke is with a cold engine in the cold weather and then it’s just a little puff when I start it. No smoke climbing hills or on jackrabbit starts that I can detect. The engine runs great and has a smooth idle. I’ve been really happy with the car. I have a stack of maint. records that goes back to the early 90’s. It seems to have been garage kept and well taken care of.

Thanks, Geno
1985 MB 300D. 215k. Home made 2 tank conversion.
MB 300D
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Postby SunWizard » Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:35 pm

I think your idea of using a D2 blend for a while is a good one. From my testing it has more power and better cold starts than a RUG blend. My 81 is a non-turbo 300D so I really notice any change in power on some of the steep hills around here.

It would be interesting to do another 5k miles on V80/D20 and then check the injectors again.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
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Postby 240Volvo » Fri Jul 31, 2009 2:24 pm

Isn't the rule of thumb for the timing advance closer to 4 degrees of those cars?
1984 Volvo 240 diesel with a single tank Elsbett conversion: electric fuel filter heater, FPHE, glow plugs, and injectors. Also injector line heaters and block heater, running 20%kero/80%WVO winter blend.
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Postby John Galt » Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:48 pm

Injector line heaters probably don't get the fuel hot enough for a 90% to 95% blend of VO and RUG. The carbon build up suggests this. Using less VO with Diesel seems like a better idea. So would adding a FPHE, especially for colder temperatures.
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Postby Turbogeno » Sat Aug 01, 2009 4:16 am

Thanks for the replies. I’ll stick with an 80/20 WVO/diesel blend for a few 1000 miles and see how the injectors look. I’ll do a mileage check on my next long trip also. My FPHE is just up stream from the pre-filter in the engine bay and works really well.

Thanks, Geno
1985 MB 300D. 215k. Home made 2 tank conversion.
MB 300D
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Postby Turbogeno » Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:01 am

I’ve been able to do a couple of mileage checks recently. Test 1, 120 miles of 40-55 mph back roads, 30.1 mpg. Very nice. Test 2, 240 miles. ½ at ~72 mph, the other ½ at 50-60 mph, 26.8 mpg. These numbers are in line with where I was with brand new injectors. I have a plastic marine fuel tank in the trunk and I fill it up to the bottom of the neck with measured amounts of fuel so I should be accurate in that respect. I’ve also started the car a couple times recently on diesel with a cold engine and the back ½ of the car was in the bright sun. I can see some white smoke for ~10 seconds. Not a lot but it’s there. I think I’ll be fine to continue on this course but I’ll make sure to check the mileage every once in a while.

MB at the Barn 8/25/09

If there is anybody in the Lk. George region of eastern NY I have 20+ cubies of WVO you can have. My 800 gallons of storage is all filled up.

Thanks, Geno
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Postby dragonfly » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:18 am

About the carbon build up. One of our Greater San Diego Greaser members is a long time diesel mechanic who ran a VW Rabbit diesel and his brother's Dodge gas 440 with water injection systems. Upon pulling the heads of both engines, they showed the pistons and combustion chamber with no carbon. Clean as a whistle. It is common knowledge that when a head gasket blows and allows water into the cylinder, it is clean of carbon. It was explained to me that the water changes to steam and attacks the carbon build up. I was also concerned with the carbon and installed a simple water injection system in my '80 300D nonturboed. Shureflo pump, 3/8" PEX. 5 gal boat tank, mister water nozel, 12 V switch. I have noticed a gain in power, especially going up hills or passing on the freeway. Haven't pulled the injectors yet, but will do so in the next few weeks.
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Postby 240Volvo » Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:48 pm

Hey, Dragonfly

What kind of misting nozzle did you use, and where did you get i?


TIA
1984 Volvo 240 diesel with a single tank Elsbett conversion: electric fuel filter heater, FPHE, glow plugs, and injectors. Also injector line heaters and block heater, running 20%kero/80%WVO winter blend.
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Postby David » Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:11 pm

On my WI system I use a simple, cheap plastic garden misting nozzle designed for pot plants. They came on a card of 10 and are about $2 a set here. I got them from the hardware store but they are also at K-mart garden centres and the like.

The ones I use have Yellow ends and are the full circle misting type. I like the plastic over the brass type for both cost and the fact that a plastic nozzle is unlikely to do any damage if ingested into the engine where as a metal one will certainly wreak havoc.

No, the plastic ones don't blow a superfine " Never touch the ground before evaporating) fog and in my 3 years of using them, I know this isn't necessary anyway. The spray they do produce is fine enough for our purposes which is cleaning not outright performance but in my experience, this also occurs.

The inherent heat in the manifold, ports in the head and going past the hot inlet valve is more than enough to make the water droplets fine enough if not completely evaporate them and whats left will be well taken care of in the cylinder.

I was giving a Horizontal Diesel I have the water treatment yesterday by just pouring the water slowly down the inlet. I only gave it about 500Ml but when I was finished, it was running with noticeably less smoke and had a distinctly more noticeable Diesel " Clack" to it. I had been running this engine for too long a time at light loads and slow RPM and I think my suspicions were right that it had clagged up somewhat because of this and the water treatment reversed the effects very well.

As well as some steam and smoke I saw coming out of the exhaust, I also saw some sparks ( surprisingly) indicating to me that carbon buildup was being liberated from inside the engine.

I have been running WI on my veg car since the beginning and believe I have been able to do so many things that would have otherwise killed it because of the water keeping things clean.

There is no doubt the engine runs vastly better as well as starts easier than when I got it despite 50,000Km on veg.
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Postby Bones » Sun Sep 20, 2009 1:26 pm

David wrote:On my WI system I use a simple, cheap plastic garden misting nozzle designed for pot plants. They came on a card of 10 and are about $2 a set here. I got them from the hardware store but they are also at K-mart garden centres and the like.

The ones I use have Yellow ends and are the full circle misting type. I like the plastic over the brass type for both cost and the fact that a plastic nozzle is unlikely to do any damage if ingested into the engine where as a metal one will certainly wreak havoc.

No, the plastic ones don't blow a superfine " Never touch the ground before evaporating) fog and in my 3 years of using them, I know this isn't necessary anyway. The spray they do produce is fine enough for our purposes which is cleaning not outright performance but in my experience, this also occurs.

The inherent heat in the manifold, ports in the head and going past the hot inlet valve is more than enough to make the water droplets fine enough if not completely evaporate them and whats left will be well taken care of in the cylinder.

I was giving a Horizontal Diesel I have the water treatment yesterday by just pouring the water slowly down the inlet. I only gave it about 500Ml but when I was finished, it was running with noticeably less smoke and had a distinctly more noticeable Diesel " Clack" to it. I had been running this engine for too long a time at light loads and slow RPM and I think my suspicions were right that it had clagged up somewhat because of this and the water treatment reversed the effects very well.

As well as some steam and smoke I saw coming out of the exhaust, I also saw some sparks ( surprisingly) indicating to me that carbon buildup was being liberated from inside the engine.

I have been running WI on my veg car since the beginning and believe I have been able to do so many things that would have otherwise killed it because of the water keeping things clean.

There is no doubt the engine runs vastly better as well as starts easier than when I got it despite 50,000Km on veg.


Thats a really interesting post David, especially the bit about the sparks.

Do you have a pic of the nozzle or a link? , will have a look here in the UK to see if i can get something similar.
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Postby David » Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:31 pm

This is the only link or pic I could find.

http://www.microjet.co.za/details/mistdets.htm

They are easily obtainable at garden centres and places like hardware shops and K-mart that sell watering systems and the like.
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Until then, it's just more endless gloom and doom Veg folk law.
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Postby Bones » Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:41 pm

Thanks for that, I'll have a poke around at my local gardening centre although I did spot these on ebay http://tinyurl.com/mm46qf

What sort of pump do you use and how is the flow activated?

I cant use the kick down button on mine as car is too fast :D
David

1994 Merc C250D -110k dino, 22k miles with t/tank - now on wvo
1998 Merc 300TD - 89k dino, 5k blend SVO garaged for winter

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"if you drive a car fast enough it will last you a lifetime"
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Postby jburke » Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:38 pm

I'm confused.

This is the single tank and blending forum, the OP's sig says "homemade 2 tank", Says he's blending rug, and gets 160-180* with ILH and has a FPHE.
So I have no idea what type of system you have or are reporting on or how you're using it.


But based on other pics I've seen of injectors, thats A LOT of carbon buildup.

Are you doing lots of short runs, less than 5 miles?
If th eFPHe is working, it shoul dbe able to get IP temps to 160-170*F w/o the ILH.
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