Need advice, 1998 Dodge WVO design that follows SunWizards

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Need advice, 1998 Dodge WVO design that follows SunWizards

Postby rvinsight » Sat Dec 26, 2009 3:21 pm

This is a 1998 12v 5.9L Dodge Cummins engine with a basic Banks turbo kit. I live in Southern Oregon where winter temps can get down to the 20s and even the teens on extreme occasions. I plan on using clear as well as partially hydrogenated oil.

I am trying to follow SunWizard's design as close as possible with 2 main differences. First, I want to use solenoid valves instead of manual so it is easier to switch while driving. Second, due to very limited space in the engine compartment on the drivers side on the 1998 I have to place everything on the passenger side.

Component info:

The FPHE is a Klaus 20 plate with insulation box mounted on an aluminum plate attached to the exhaust manifold. I am removing the hard coolant lines used for the cabin heater that normally occupy this area and replacing them with 5/8 hose tapped for the WVO heating loop. I plan on having 3 - 1/2" ball valves in the coolant loop. One to control the amount of coolant going into the cabin heater. The other 2 will be used to cut off coolant going into and returning from the WVO loop in case of emergency leaks.

The heated filter is a Frybrid Coolant heated filter assembly mounted on a custom aluminum bracket that also holds down the passenger side battery. This filter will be mounted on the pressure side of the system.

The 3-way solenoid valves will be mounted on an aluminum plate attached to the valve cover in place of the dodge plate that currently exists.

The HIH is using 5/8 ID outer hose over 3/8 OD aluminum tubing similar to SunWizards except that I will be using 3/4” Ts instead of 1/2” for more flow.

The tank will be the 17 gallon RCI tank that SunWizard uses mounted on the passenger side of the bed.

Here are some questions besides general advice of the overall system and flow of the diagram:

1.Will an insulated 20 plate FPHE be sufficient to heat the oil for this engine? I originally purchased the FPHE for a Mercedes but I ended up selling it and buying this Dodge.

2.Will the regular hydraforce valves be sufficient for this engine or do I need the higher flow ones?

3.Do I need to use 2 adjustable delay timers for my valves? One for the return valve. Do I need the other one for the filter valve so heated WVO in the lines to and from the lift pump does not get sent to the diesel filter on the purge cycle? Does anyone know of a good source for these adjustable delay timers?

4.SunWizard's design routes the HIH coolant through 5/8 hose and then into the tank through 3/8 OD aluminum tubing for the tank heating coil. Would it be possible to use 3/8 hose to return the coolant back the engine instead of 5/8? The 3/8 OD tubing is going to be more restrictive than 3/8 ID hose and would make the connection to the tank heating coil much easier.

5.Am I placing the clear sight glass filters in the proper locations for purge timing and protection after the FPHE?

6.In my valve after the lift pump should I try to route the diesel side back through the dodge fuel pre-heater or directly into the diesel filter? If the pre-heater is the right route then how should I make this connection since its inlet uses 1/2” hose instead of 3/8”?

7.Is it ok to use a double banjo at the connection to the IP instead of cutting into the hard line and placing a T?

8.Is there any chance that the WVO can get pushed back through the diesel line into the diesel filter with my design?

9.With the placement of my oil temp sensor and fuel pressure sensor it seems that I will only be getting correct readings once I am switched over to WVO. Is that true? If I move it as close as possible to the FPHE will I get a better reading before switchover as far as my oils temps are concerned?

10.Should I be concerned about the cool WVO in the line going from the FPHE to the IP at switchover?

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.



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Re: Need advice, 1998 Dodge WVO design that follows SunWizar

Postby SunWizard » Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:38 pm

I find your diagram confusing to follow and incomplete. I don't understand the filter on top of the engine. The manual purge loop valve is un-needed complexity and cost, since for either filter change you can do it on D2 and return to D2 tank. This is better since the inevitable air purges much quicker on D2 for either filter.

rvinsight wrote:1.Will an insulated 20 plate FPHE be sufficient to heat the oil for this engine?

Yes as long as you adjust most of the coolant flow through it instead of heater core.
2.Will the regular hydraforce valves be sufficient for this engine or do I need the higher flow ones?

I don't know since I didn't use them. It wouldn't hurt.
3.Do I need to use 2 adjustable delay timers for my valves? One for the return valve. Do I need the other one for the filter valve so heated WVO in the lines to and from the lift pump does not get sent to the diesel filter on the purge cycle? Does anyone know of a good source for these adjustable delay timers?

Yes or use 3 switches and manually delay which I prefer since the proper delay varies depending on RPMs. And its a quicker purge if you do it while moving.
4.SunWizard's design routes the HIH coolant through 5/8 hose and then into the tank through 3/8 OD aluminum tubing for the tank heating coil. Would it be possible to use 3/8 hose to return the coolant back the engine instead of 5/8?

No, too much loss of flow and little to no cost savings.
5.Am I placing the clear sight glass filters in the proper locations for purge timing and protection after the FPHE?

Yes but for purge timing you only need it once, then its probably best to remove it so you have less connections or filters to cause trouble.
6.In my valve after the lift pump should I try to route the diesel side back through the dodge fuel pre-heater or directly into the diesel filter?

Yes thats what I like since then you have the strainer and heater which both are useful. Unless your heater is leaky which is common.
If the pre-heater is the right route then how should I make this connection since its inlet uses 1/2” hose instead of 3/8”?

I cut the 3/8" metal line, same as most of the connections.
7.Is it ok to use a double banjo at the connection to the IP instead of cutting into the hard line and placing a T?

Yes as long as it flows fully.
8.Is there any chance that the WVO can get pushed back through the diesel line into the diesel filter with my design?

Not if you follow mine, the closed valve stops any back flow.
9.With the placement of my oil temp sensor and fuel pressure sensor it seems that I will only be getting correct readings once I am switched over to WVO. Is that true?

No, you read pressure for both fuels since they are teed which is great.
If I move it as close as possible to the FPHE will I get a better reading before switchover as far as my oils temps are concerned?

No. You get no readings before switch. I switch based on coolant temp.
10.Should I be concerned about the cool WVO in the line going from the FPHE to the IP at switchover?

Yes. Keep all hoses as short as possible, and I ran it hose on hose so its heated before and after switchover.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
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Re: Need advice, 1998 Dodge WVO design that follows SunWizar

Postby rvinsight » Sun Dec 27, 2009 2:19 pm

SunWizard wrote:I find your diagram confusing to follow and incomplete. I don't understand the filter on top of the engine. The manual purge loop valve is un-needed complexity and cost, since for either filter change you can do it on D2 and return to D2 tank. This is better since the inevitable air purges much quicker on D2 for either filter.


Thank you very much for your response. The item on top of the valve cover labeled "filter" is one of the 3 way valves. I named the valves as to what they are switching. When the diagram was converted to JPEG it made that label bold for some reason while leaving the others standard. I will take your advice and eliminate the purge / loop valve.

SunWizard wrote:
Rvinsight wrote:4.SunWizard's design routes the HIH coolant through 5/8 hose and then into the tank through 3/8 OD aluminum tubing for the tank heating coil. Would it be possible to use 3/8 hose to return the coolant back the engine instead of 5/8?

No, too much loss of flow and little to no cost savings.

How did you make your connections from 5/8 ID hose to the 3/8 OD tubing entering and exiting your tank? Did you use a 1/2 F NPT union with a 3/8 barbed adapter on one side and a 5/8 barbed adapter on the other?

Thanks again for your time.
rvinsight
 
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Re: Need advice, 1998 Dodge WVO design that follows SunWizar

Postby SunWizard » Sun Dec 27, 2009 3:00 pm

Rvinsight wrote:Did you use a 1/2 F NPT union with a 3/8 barbed adapter on one side and a 5/8 barbed adapter on the other?

Yes.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
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Posts: 1719
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:53 pm
Location: N. Colorado

Postby 123eddie » Sun Dec 27, 2009 7:29 pm

Nice drawing, I think you are on the right track. I also plumbed my 98 12 valve with sunwizards design but hydroforce valves instead of manual. My wife drives the truck from time to time and there is no way that she would pay attention to switch and purge at the proper time. I bought my valves and micro processor from Shane at Roverhybrids. Shane recommended 1/2'' aluminum tube in 1'' hose from my wvo tank to the first switching high flow valve and it has performed well for me. One recommendation that I got from Shane is instead of using a t at the injection pump to join the veg and diesel fuel connect them before your fuel pressure take off and you will be able to monitor the pressure on the diesel side along with the veg side. I also mounted my veg filter at the passenger side battery and the 30 plate fphe over the exhaust manifold.
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Postby SunWizard » Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:57 am

123eddie wrote:One recommendation that I got from Shane is instead of using a t at the injection pump to join the veg and diesel fuel connect them before your fuel pressure take off and you will be able to monitor the pressure on the diesel side along with the veg side.

Tee at any place you like, and it reads pressure just the same.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1719
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:53 pm
Location: N. Colorado

Postby 123eddie » Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:46 am

Sunwizard wrote: Tee at any place you like, and it reads pressure just the same.

I may be wrong but it appears to me that since he has diesel entering the I.P. after the fuel pressure gage take off that it will not read diesel fuel pressure. In order to also read diesel fuel pressure the diesel would have to flow though the fuel pressure gage take off.
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Location: Encinitas CA

Postby SunWizard » Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:54 pm

123eddie wrote:I may be wrong but it appears to me that since he has diesel entering the I.P. after the fuel pressure gage take off that it will not read diesel fuel pressure. In order to also read diesel fuel pressure the diesel would have to flow though the fuel pressure gage take off.

You are wrong. When any system that is teed together (think about your homes water system) is pressurized, you can read the pressure at any point, even where there is no flow there. As long as its not behind a valve.
YVORMV - Your veg. oil results may vary.
95 Dodge Cummins 4x4 SVO WVO conversion.
81 Mercedes 300D- stock and happy on V80/D20 blend.
Low fossil net zero house- 100% solar power and heat.
SunWizard
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1719
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:53 pm
Location: N. Colorado


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