How much is $4 diesel going to increase competition

For discussing the modifications needed for diesel vehicles to run with 2 tank veggie oil conversions.

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How much is $4 diesel going to increase competition

Postby Muleears » Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:22 pm

for WVO from our restaurants? I'm afraid of someone else coming in and offering to buy it from them. :evil: Are our sources going to dry up?
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Southeast VA
98 E300D, two tanked, Greasecar
87 300D Turbo, Blend
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Postby John Galt » Wed Mar 12, 2008 12:40 pm

Used VO is a limited resource and a valuable commodity. With rising fuel prices the free supplies will 'dry up' and it will become a big topic in the VO community as to who has the cheapest oil supply.
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Postby Muleears » Wed Mar 12, 2008 4:12 pm

Now may be a good time to show our appreciation to our suppliers. Maybe a gift cert. or something.
Cal Genereux
Southeast VA
98 E300D, two tanked, Greasecar
87 300D Turbo, Blend
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Postby zoochy » Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:59 pm

I occationally give the head chef of the resteraunt that gives me oil a 6 pack of home made beer that he really likes... It's a small thing but it probably goes a long way.
1988 Dodge Ram in progress.
1997 Dodge Ram- 2 tank; Arctic Fox pickup; TIH; Plantdrive VM2 filter; Hydroforce valves
PREVIOUS 91 Toyota Hiace 3L engine >200,000 km on: 88% canola WVO; 11% old gasoline; 0.6% turpentine; 0.3% acetone; 0.1% eye of newt
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Postby David » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:44 am

I don't think the price of Diesel is as big a threat to our supplies as the misguided green nuts who want to promote veg to all and sundry. There are people here in oz and I imagine world wide, who's misguided mission in life is to get veg in the tank of every vehicle and seem to completely ignore the stupidity and flaws in that idea.

These people that want to put on public bio making demonstrations at fairs and gatherings as well as those promoting free fuel on TV and the media etc are the ones that are in fact going to kill Veg fuels totally. Once it gets popular enough, if the demand on the limited oil supply dosen't run out first, govt departments and business will complicate the whole thing till it becomes worthwhile for no one.

I think no matter how well people look after suppliers, once the companies come along waving cash, at best present collectors will be given first chance to meet the collectors monetary offer. Of course over time people sell, retire, move and otherwise get out of business and your alliance is lost.

I discovered 2 days ago that my first supplier business has again changed hands. Twice in 2 years. I have plenty of suppliers so whether I can win them over again I'm not really worried. The amount of oil I get from them is not really worth calling in for except I do like the food there.

The business has gone downhill from when I first started collecting there as I think the place was some sort of front for a biker racket selling drugs or something and since they cleared out to new digs, the place has been extremely quiet although my kids still love the chips there and the place is convinently located on the way home from school.

The last owner couldn't make it work despite spending a lot on good advertising and excellent food and now with some changes in the local area with new shops and traffic changes, I don't think the new owners will be there more than 6 months.
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Postby 123eddie » Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:45 am

On Craigs's List someone is advertising that they will set up a barrel at your site and pay you $1 a gallon. Also the small restraunts are having a hard time with rising costs and not being able to pass it on to customers one of my best suppliers went out of busines The govt here gave large funding to form "green" technology and now we have all the companies with names like Green Leaf collecting oil to turn it into bio.
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Postby John Galt » Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:44 am

There are people here in oz and I imagine world wide, who's misguided mission in life is to get veg in the tank of every vehicle and seem to completely ignore the stupidity and flaws in that idea.

These people that want to put on public bio making demonstrations at fairs and gatherings as well as those promoting free fuel on TV and the media etc are the ones that are in fact going to kill Veg fuels totally.


Ain't that the truth. I call 'em biodiesel evangelicals. There's a whole nest of 'em over at infopop. It's a perfect example of shooting oneself in the foot.
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Postby 123eddie » Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:19 pm

Local home depo has 5 gallons kerosene on sale for $15.35, thats $3 and change per gallon. I'm running a 79 mercedes wagon that the previous owner converted with a davco 234 that he paid $990 to have installed poorly by everyones favorite vendor. I seem to get good results with 8 gallons wvo and 4 gallons diesel @ $4.50 per gallon. So from what I've read kerosene is a good substute for diesel. I just had a Mexican resturant that I contacted months ago called and it looks like the mother lode. 50 gallons a week to start and when their chip factory goes on line maybe more.
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Postby denson » Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:20 pm

I have a few suppliers that still donate oil for free, but most of them are people I know fairly well. My other suppliers I have to out bid oil recycling companys, and from the look of that craigs list comment I'll be out bid before long. I've also heard diesel could shoot up to almost $6 a gallon by the end of the summer in some areas. Seems like if you have a good supplier that is not a "mom and pop" type operation, you better be ready to start paying that $1.00 per gallon. As soon as one person Finds out their garbage is worth that much, all the others will want the same price. Keep in mind this comment is coming from a disgruntled person who just lost a supplier. The only reason I was given for this was "we found a better deal".
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Postby David » Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:08 pm

denson wrote:Keep in mind this comment is coming from a disgruntled person who just lost a supplier. The only reason I was given for this was "we found a better deal".


This is what it will come down to despite what sort of relationships people thing they are building with their suppliers... Who will pay them the most money for their oil.

We have to remember, despite all the fluff and good customer relations malarkey, business are there for one purpose... To make money. As costs go up and profits margins start getting thinner, people, no matter how well intentioned and helpful, are going to be looking to make every dollar they possibly can.

As unfair/annoying/disappointing as this may seem, a person has to ask themselves who they would put first if they were in the same situation.... someone off the street or the welfare and happiness of their own families.

The answer is pretty obvious to all I'd say
_____________________

I don't give a damn about what might or could happen until a significant group of people can tell me it HAS happened to them.
Until then, it's just more endless gloom and doom Veg folk law.
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Postby John Galt » Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:17 pm

The rendering companies buy the used oil from the restaurants and sell it to the commercial biodiesel producers who then sell the biodiesel they produce to Europe where they can make a much greater profit. This is exactly what we can expect when greed and profit are the dominant values in a society.

Did anyone really expect the free ride would last forever?
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Postby powerstroke73L » Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:01 pm

I think it's just a matter of hustling a little harder. The majority of my WVO comes from "under the radar" sources. One is a small deli that is in the middle of a residential neighborhood. It probably wouldn't even serve to perk the interest of the big rendering companies because it's too far off the beaten path of TGI Fridays and Ruby Tuesdays out by the state highway. Another is an out of the way tavern on a country road. Finally, a local private school is another source. Awash in donations and tuition $$$, they don't really care about getting $0.30 a lb for fryer grease. Also, these are establishments that I frequent-oftentimes when I pick up I'll stop in and have a beer/get a sandwich.

I would say these days that some of the worst places to get oil from are any establishments that are in the middle of a heavily commercial zone (strip malls, business districts, etc...) because they are the areas targeted by rendering companies. The trucks can pull into a strip mall and go from the pizza place, to the Chinese joint, to the steak place, etc... Also, these are the areas where grease is most likely to be stolen from.
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Postby David » Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:59 pm

I agree that people could try harder/better when asking for oil. I have been saying this since I got involved in this caper. There is no doubt WVO is getting harder to get with the commercial collectors really going overboard to get what seems to be every last drop.

I hear complaints all the time form people saying they can't get oil when the fact is the areas they are looking in I know to be virtually awash with it. I have for a long time pushed the ability to sell as a virtual life skill and my experience in the veg world only confirms that.

I don't know how things are in other places but here there are many places and sorts of places that oil can easy be obtained but it seems no one either thinks or bothers to go to these places. Often when they do approach establishments, they stammer or blurt out what they are wanting like a nervous junkie hassling for their next fix. There is so much in the tone of ones voice, body language, appearance and overall approach that affects the outcome of a yes or no.
I have also pushed that people go back to places they have already been to a month or so later and ask again. I have had reports from several people in places where oil is genuinely hard to get that they have had great ( and surprising to them them) success by doing this. On the second or 3rd visit, the people tend to become more interested and start asking their own questions. Once they do that, your nearly there.

Unfortunately many people IMHO just don't try hard enough while many seem to ask for oil in a way that puts the shopkeepers right off from the start and makes them nervous enough to automatically say no whether they have any or not.
When this is happening, it seems to me to be the biggest barrier in securing supplies as the people will get a knock back even when the oil is there for the taking, let alone when it is not.

On the local forum I have seen at least 10-15 new people posting every week for the last few weeks. I can't see how many new people are Joining, but the number posting is significant in itself. While some people are pushing what I feel is the smart move of keep quiet, others are still heel bent on promoting veg and shouting it from the rooftops. Some say it is unfair to not make those in need of financial relief from using veg aware of it but I have to wonder who is going to provide them the financial relief when their WVO supplies dry up and they are back to paying full price for Dino?
_____________________

I don't give a damn about what might or could happen until a significant group of people can tell me it HAS happened to them.
Until then, it's just more endless gloom and doom Veg folk law.
David
 
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Postby John Galt » Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:02 pm

It seems they have difficulty grasping the obvious fact that there is way more fossil fuel in the world than there is biofuel. In some places used fryer oil has become a very scarce commodity.
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Postby powerstroke73L » Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:23 pm

David wrote:On the local forum I have seen at least 10-15 new people posting every week for the last few weeks. I can't see how many new people are Joining, but the number posting is significant in itself. While some people are pushing what I feel is the smart move of keep quiet, others are still heel bent on promoting veg and shouting it from the rooftops. Some say it is unfair to not make those in need of financial relief from using veg aware of it but I have to wonder who is going to provide them the financial relief when their WVO supplies dry up and they are back to paying full price for Dino?


Over on www.powerstroke.org interest in WVO and biodiesel has directly correlated to diesel prices. The biofuels/additives forum used to be a place where biodiesel was occasionally discussed with most discussions revolving around Stanadyne vs. Power Service vs. Lucas vs. plain old 2 stroke oil as a fuel additive. Now every thread is about how to run WVO or homebrew biodiesel. What a lot of guys are realizing is the following:

It aint as easy as dumping a cubee in the tank

Biodiesel is not simple to make

GOOD WVO systems are expensive

Collecting and filtering takes work

Put simply, this will never be for everyone. First of all there just aren't as many diesels as gassers on the road, so that eliminates a pretty large segment of the population. Next, of those people that do drive diesel vehicles, many of them either don't care enough about the price of diesel to pursue other options, don't posses the mechanical knowledge to pursue a conversion, don't have the time to convert a vehicle/collect and filter oil, or really just see this as a novelty.

What scares me is the guy with a large vacuum tank in the back of his pickup going around and sucking grease dumpsters dry and selling the contents to the highest bidding unscrupulous rendering company, but this is simply the nature of high priced commodities-there will always be illicit trade and stiff competition. One of the primary reasons I own a diesel truck in the first place is because I collect scrap metal. Whenever I see metal put out for trash on the side of the road I throw it in the bed. Eventually when I have enough I head off to the scrap yard. Just like with yellow grease, the price of copper, aluminum, brass, and even steel have shot through the roof. Needless to say I don't see much scrap languishing at the side of the road anymore. In fact, once I was on my way home from work and saw a hot water heater laying at the end of a driveway on the opposite side of the road. Before I could put my blinker on to make a u-turn a truck in the oncoming lane had stopped to pick it up. This is not to mention the fact that scrap theft is at an all time high with people literally maiming and killing themselves trying to get at copper power cables, etc...
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