More Heat!

For discussing the modifications needed for diesel vehicles to run with 2 tank veggie oil conversions.

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More Heat!

Postby every1elsesdoinit » Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:41 pm

I've posted earlier about converting my short length school bus to a two-tank VO system here:

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9321076562/m/958104534

Its been going fairly well--I've driven maybe 3,000 miles on it. About 1,000 of those miles were from CO to Los Angeles in one shot which was probably the best use of VO as it required very little stopping and starting.
The issue is that the bus seems to have a ridiculously low operating temperature. It's no problem when we're driving on the highway as we basically floor it the whole time and the engine temperature gauge gets to about the middle (there aren't any numbers) and we flip it over to VO, and the VO thermometer says 160. As long as we're chugging away on the highway mostly flooring it, the VO temp stays at or a little above 160. But as soon as we start to slow down/give it less fuel the engine temp and the VO temp seem to drop. Its almost impossible to drive through towns and keep the fuel temp up.
We've already blocked the radiator. I think the next step will be to close the cab heater although I'm a little afraid that I might have teed into the line in the wrong place and won't be able to close it without closing everything.....
Someone had mentioned in another post that one might be able to replace the stock thermometer with another. I guess I don't exactly understand what that would do?
Any other thoughts for getting the engine temp up?
West Coast
1991 Ford B600 Schoolbus
6.6L Turbodiesel running on 2 tank VO
Hotfox pickup, TIH fuel line, coolant wrapped filter, 26 plate FPHE, temp and pressure sensors

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Postby John Galt » Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:28 am

How do you heat the VO fuel. Show a sketch or detailed description of the coolant circuit.

Replace the thermostat in the cooling system with a 212°F rated tstat. The description of the problem sounds like a defective tatat or one with too low a temperature rating.
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Postby SunWizard » Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:21 am

Replace the thermostat. They go bad often. Even a 195F one should work.
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Postby David » Sat Dec 18, 2010 3:47 am

How much and how low does the temp drop?
It's normal for an engine that is working hard to heat up the cooling system more than when it is plodding along.

The thermostat regulates the MINIMUM temp the engine will sustain. Under load it may rise. If your after 160, then you have to check that in fact a thermo IS installed. operating correctly and its temp rating is not below 160 which in my experience, would be unusual anyway.

The other thing is how efficent is your HE? If you have it plumbed so there is way for the coolant to bypass it by being "T'ed" before the HE as is the common and flawed practice, then there simply may not be enough flow through the HE to heat the oil sufficently at low revs/ workload.

While ever the engine is running it will produce heat. If the ENGINE temp is dropping substantialy and below 160, then the greatest likelyhood is you either have no thermo or a faulty one. You first need to establish that you do have an operating thermo and then go from there.
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Postby every1elsesdoinit » Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:29 pm

Sorry about the delay in replying. I'm on the road in the bus at the moment so internet is intermittent.
Here's a diagram of the coolant flow:
Image
I know i plumbed it in parallel and it should be series, but thats just the way i ended up doing it. Maybe later I can change it.
However, I closed the valve after the cab heater side so I should be closing off flow to that side and forcing it through the VO side. I'm not sure that its made much difference except the cab is slightly colder.
Its tricky to say exactly what temperature the engine is at, because the engine temp gauge doesn't have any labels. However, it rarely even reaches the middle of the dial. You have to really floor it to get it there, and then fairly quickly after you let up on the pedal, it starts to drop again. When the needle is in the middle of the gauge, the fuel temp gauge reads maybe 175 or so. But then if you start to idle for a while it starts to drop a bit below 160. I'm fairly sure that the bus has a thermostat and I'm fairly sure that its set to 210ish (info from service manual). I suppose that the best solution would be to try to replace it because it does seem to act like its losing heat through the radiator. Thats going to be a bit of a job, so I might wait a little seeing as we're doing mostly highway driving and the temp isn't really an issue on the highway where to keep up with traffic you have to floor it the whole way.
Thanks!
West Coast
1991 Ford B600 Schoolbus
6.6L Turbodiesel running on 2 tank VO
Hotfox pickup, TIH fuel line, coolant wrapped filter, 26 plate FPHE, temp and pressure sensors

You all are lifesavers
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Postby mike_belben » Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:25 am

id put some cardboard in front of the radiator until i could swap thermostats. cold veggie injection will give you bigger headaches than a tstat.
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Postby every1elsesdoinit » Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:03 pm

yeah i did put some cardboard between the grill and the radiator when it started to get cold. I think i did notice some difference there, but this particular issue seems to be thermostat related. Does anyone know whether particularly low or high coolant levels would make a difference?
West Coast
1991 Ford B600 Schoolbus
6.6L Turbodiesel running on 2 tank VO
Hotfox pickup, TIH fuel line, coolant wrapped filter, 26 plate FPHE, temp and pressure sensors

You all are lifesavers
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Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 11:38 pm

Postby mike_belben » Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:31 am

you want the highest coolant level possible, without any airspace. during operation the coolant system is pressurized so that the boiling point is raised. when trapped air compresses, its as if the radiator volume has grown. pressure never rises, so the coolant boils at lower temps than if it were under pressure.

low enough coolant wont reach the heater core, thermostat, pump, gauge etc depending on vehicle specifics.. and can be mis-diagnosed as running cold when in reality the head is cooking. if the heater is blowing hot air youve generally got enough coolant.

im not suggesting this as a substitute for actually checking fluid levels.
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Postby every1elsesdoinit » Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:52 am

Thanks. I've been checking the fluid levels, but I'm also battling some coolant leaks, so I thought low levels might be affecting it a bit. Probably not on hindsight, but I'm going to top it all off anyways.
West Coast
1991 Ford B600 Schoolbus
6.6L Turbodiesel running on 2 tank VO
Hotfox pickup, TIH fuel line, coolant wrapped filter, 26 plate FPHE, temp and pressure sensors

You all are lifesavers
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Posts: 22
Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 11:38 pm

Re: More Heat!

Postby Renntag » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:48 am

every1elsesdoinit wrote:...We've already blocked the radiator.


mike_belben wrote:id put some cardboard in front of the radiator until i could swap thermostats. cold veggie injection will give you bigger headaches than a tstat.


They mentioned that in the first post. :roll:



replace the stock thermometer with another. I guess I don't exactly understand what that would do?
Any other thoughts for getting the engine temp up?


I can only guess that by "thermometer" you are referring to the factory temp gauge. It is best to install not only an aftermarket oil pressure gauge (the life blood of the motor), but also a temp gauge to see your coolant temp.
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Postby every1elsesdoinit » Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:21 pm

Yeah I meant to say "thermostat" not "thermometer". Like the thing that regulates coolant flow to the radiator. Still haven't gotten around to replacing it, and we did just drive from the bay area to seattle. We got temps of 170+, probably because we were driving 60-65 the whole time. I think I'd still like to replace it eventually, because I'm sure it would help speed up switching over, but we just don't have the time/energy at the moment....
West Coast
1991 Ford B600 Schoolbus
6.6L Turbodiesel running on 2 tank VO
Hotfox pickup, TIH fuel line, coolant wrapped filter, 26 plate FPHE, temp and pressure sensors

You all are lifesavers
every1elsesdoinit
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 11:38 pm

Re: More Heat!

Postby mike_belben » Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:58 am

Renntag wrote:They mentioned that in the first post. :roll:


yeah, and he mentioned that in the post after mine

every1elsesdoinit wrote:yeah i did put some cardboard between the grill and the radiator when it started to get cold.


but thanks for making sure i was aware. and great post on the need for gauges. didnt realize oil was the lifeblood of the motor. :roll:
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