Dewatering and Cleaning VO with Cold Upflow Settling

Collecting, filtering and dewatering of WVO SVO vegetable oil. For Biodiesel producers too.

Moderators: SunWizard, coachgeo

Dewatering and Cleaning VO with Cold Upflow Settling

Postby John Galt » Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:19 pm

......
Last edited by John Galt on Sun Jun 14, 2015 1:43 pm, edited 10 times in total.
John Galt
 
Posts: 526
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:17 pm
Location: Coldest North America

Postby John Galt » Tue Mar 04, 2008 10:50 pm

.....
Last edited by John Galt on Sun Jun 14, 2015 1:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
John Galt
 
Posts: 526
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:17 pm
Location: Coldest North America

Postby John Galt » Tue May 06, 2008 1:03 pm

If cold upflow settling does not produce clear dry oil for your 'WVO' and your specific conditions then heated upflow settling may work for you.

Those like Ron Schroeder who developed heated upflow settling know that even heating and good insulation are essential.

Here's his description of the system he has used for many years.


I have a trouble free settling system that gets me more than 1000 gallons thru a 2 micron Racor filter element.

My settling tank is very evenly heated and well insulated. I introduce the oil into the bottom of the tank slowly to not stir up the oil already in the tank. The outlet is about 6" from the TOP of the tank so I am only draining the top 10% of the oil in the tank. The outlet gravity flows thru the 2 micron filter into my storage tank. If I put 5 gallons into the tank a day, it takes over a week for that oil to work it's way up to the outlet. by that time almost all of the water and solids have settled out. I get over 1000 gallons thru the filtering station filter and I have NEVER had to replace an in the car WVO filter even after 70,000 miles on WVO.

I use a settling tank that has a little more capacity than the amount of oil I use in a week. With PHO Soy, I ran a little over 120F in the settling tank and about 80 in the storage tank (I am intentionally keeping the animal fat clear). With Canola, I am running about 100F.

No problems with polymerization.

I can heat it either with hot water from my boiler or with electricity. The tank is wrapped with PEX pipe with a spacing of about 3" turn to turn and is also wrapped with ice melt cable between the PEX turns.

The water loop is fed from a tempering valve so a constant water temperature is circulated around the settling tank. The circulating pump that I am using only draws 5 watts.

The electric heat is controlled by a proportional controller rather than an on/off controller. Once up to temperature, it takes less than 60 watts to maintain temperature. With good enough insulation a 60 to 80 foot ice melt cable will get you over 200F. That temperature will probably damage the cable. I have had no problems up to 150F.

Normally I just use the circulating hot water heat.

I also heat the incoming waste oil with an inline thermostatically controlled electric heater (like a 120V version of a veggietherm) to the same temperature as the tank so there is no temperature differential between the incoming oil and the oil already in the tank.

My in home filtering has been working so well that I used a stock fuel filter for WVO on my last WVO conversion ('85 MB 300D)


Ron
'85 300D
Since '81 former WVO conversions:
'83 240D
'80 Audi 4000D
'83 Isuzu Pup
'86 Golf
'76 Honda Civic with Kubota engine
Several generators
Kubota Tractor
John Galt
 
Posts: 526
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:17 pm
Location: Coldest North America

Postby WD8CDH » Fri May 30, 2008 10:50 am

Hi John,

Only one change in my systems operation since the post that you quoted. I disconnected the hot water heating and now only use the electric ice melt cable. The insulation is good enough that the electric heat draws almost as little power as the circulating pump for the hot water.

My settling tank is inside of an insulation lined plywood box. The insulation is 2 layers of 1" foil faced foam so heat from the de-icing cable is reflected back to the space between the turns.

Also not mentioned is I heat my filter. The filter doesn't need tight temperature control so it is regulated with a simple mechanical thermostat. I keep the filter roughly 10 degrees warmer than the settling tank.

Heating allows a much higher thruput but doesn't remove PHO or fats. I can even de-water lard or butter. I don't pre-settle in cubies, I usually run my oil thru the system the day that I get it. Since I don't have a wood burning stove, I would have to find a disposal of the fats etc. if I was doing cold upflow settling.

By the way, 25 years ago, I had a compleate upflow settling system in a small apartment closet. :twisted:
Ron Schroeder
WD8CDH
'85 MB 300DT 2 Tank
Since '81 former WVO conversions:
'83 240D
'80 Audi 4000D
'83 Isuzu Pup
'86 Golf
'76 Honda Civic with Kubota engine
Prior to the cars, several generators
Kubota Tractor
WD8CDH
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 11:44 am
Location: NY

Postby David » Fri May 30, 2008 5:45 pm

WD8CDH wrote:By the way, 25 years ago, I had a compleate upflow settling system in a small apartment closet. :twisted:


Hi Ron,
Am I to take it you were using veg and the upflow system for cleaning your oil 25 years ago or is there a joke in there somewhere I'm not getting?
_____________________

I don't give a damn about what might or could happen until a significant group of people can tell me it HAS happened to them.
Until then, it's just more endless gloom and doom Veg folk law.
David
 
Posts: 333
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:12 am
Location: Sydney Australia

Postby WD8CDH » Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:30 pm

Hi David,

It was more than 25 years ago, but it wasn't veggie oil. Back then it was LARD, animal fat.

My first waste oil vehicle was a 1980 Audi 4000S which I bought new and converted in the winter of 1980/81. For a few years prior to that I was experimenting with waste oil on generators.

Since I was living in a small apartment, I switched from batch settling to upflow settling at the same time.
Ron Schroeder
WD8CDH
'85 MB 300DT 2 Tank
Since '81 former WVO conversions:
'83 240D
'80 Audi 4000D
'83 Isuzu Pup
'86 Golf
'76 Honda Civic with Kubota engine
Prior to the cars, several generators
Kubota Tractor
WD8CDH
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 11:44 am
Location: NY

Postby John Galt » Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:57 pm

I've made a couple of improvements recently.
My cold upflow processor produces clear dry VO. The upflow is run at temperatures below 10°C 50°F to separate the PHO, fats and the water associated with them. The clear dry oil is mixed with kerosene\D1+jetB then filtered, settled and filtered into the vehicle tank. The VO from the upflow settling can be HPT moisture tested to check for dryness. The solvents make filtering and mixing the fuel blend much easier in the cold temperatures. The only disadvantage is that HPTs aren't valid with the solvents in the mix.

I was concerned that the barrels of VO fuel mix might absorb moisture from the air, so I experimented with some Quik n' Dri.
http://biodiesel.coorga.com/quik.html

It seemed like a good idea to use Q&D in the processing as a trace moisture absorber and an indirect indicator of the moisture content in the fuel. I'm using an inverted 5gal water cooler bottle with a hole cut in the bottom to support a reusable 'canvas' shopping bag for a filter\funnel into the last settling barrel. The water cooler jug neck fits into the bung on the 30 gal poly barrel.

A Universal Water Filter cartridge fits snugly into the neck of the jug.
The cartridge is easily disassembled, and the bag containing the water treatment particles removed to provide space for about 75ml of Q&D with headroom for expansion with the cap replaced.

Image

This Q&D column is good assurance of dry fuel and as an indicator of moisture trapped.
Last edited by John Galt on Sun Jun 14, 2015 1:44 pm, edited 9 times in total.
John Galt
 
Posts: 526
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:17 pm
Location: Coldest North America

cold upflow

Postby gary » Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:11 pm

Ron , what part of NY are you from...Im in the Catskills and would love to run my kubota on wvo...If you are cold upflow settling and then cf'ing does it cut the time cf'ing in half?
gary
 
Posts: 102
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:27 pm

Postby WD8CDH » Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:11 pm

It wouldn't reduce the time you need for spinning but it sure will reduce the time you spend cleaning out the CF. :wink:
Ron Schroeder
WD8CDH
'85 MB 300DT 2 Tank
Since '81 former WVO conversions:
'83 240D
'80 Audi 4000D
'83 Isuzu Pup
'86 Golf
'76 Honda Civic with Kubota engine
Prior to the cars, several generators
Kubota Tractor
WD8CDH
 
Posts: 103
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 11:44 am
Location: NY

Postby John Galt » Tue Oct 14, 2008 7:36 pm

A commonly held misbelief is that somehow used cooking oil conforms to some international standard and that what works to clean the UVO in one case will work for everyone else.

Logic dictates this is totally fallacious. The difficulty in removing water and other contaminants depends on the type of oil used and what's been cooked in it and how long the oil has been used. Just because a process works for someone else does not mean it will or will not necessarily work for you. It has very little to do with where they live other than the ambient processing temperature available and how that effects the different components and how their contaminant load separates from the clear clean oil you want as motor fuel. It's a common misconception among new users that if they can somehow find the perfect recipe and follow it precisely that somehow they will get the same results. What they fail to understand is that it's almost impossible to have the same UVO in almost every case.

You have to experiment with different processes with your UVO to find what works best in your case. Parroting someone elses process without first understanding the basic principles will always result in frustration and disappointment, often followed by accusations toward the person whose process you tried to copy.
It's all part of the learning process. Some achieve that understanding through research and experimentation, while some others never will.
Last edited by John Galt on Sun May 16, 2010 1:16 pm, edited 3 times in total.
John Galt
 
Posts: 526
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:17 pm
Location: Coldest North America

Postby coachgeo » Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:38 pm

could you give us a link or something to us to read about what quick dry is?
Life; It's all in the Balance

Moderator
coachgeo
 
Posts: 569
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:46 am
Location: North Texas

Postby John Galt » Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:31 pm

Last edited by John Galt on Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
John Galt
 
Posts: 526
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:17 pm
Location: Coldest North America

connection question

Postby david p » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:46 pm

i'm sure there is a simple answer to this, but i couldn't quite figure out one thing from your description and diagram of the upflow setting system. the oil comes in to the 55 gallon barrel via the 2" bung, and then goes out via the 3/4" bung. how do you ensure that oil doesn't seep out around the edges of the 2" bung?

Here's the relevant part of your post:

A 2ft piece of 2" exhaust pipe with the top end flared, sits inside the 2" pipe coupling and ensures that the new oil is delivered near the bottom of the settling barrel. Steel pipe is rated by inside diameter and exhaust tube is rated by outside diameter, thus they fit well together.

i'm guess the "top end flared" has something to do with it. i just can't picture what you mean by that. a picture, diagram, or explanation would be greatly appreciated. i'm working on putting together a similar setup. thanks.
'02 VW Jetta with Elsbett 1 tank system (plan to run on WVO)
david p
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:50 pm
Location: San Mateo, CA

Postby John Galt » Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:14 pm

The end of the exhaust tube is flared slightly [similar to this illustration of a flared pipe end]

Image
with a ball peen hammer against a wood block so the exhaust tube seals adequately to the end of the 2" pipe coupler
John Galt
 
Posts: 526
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:17 pm
Location: Coldest North America

Postby Jettage » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:45 pm

John Galt wrote:Ron Schroeder

The electric heat is controlled by a proportional controller rather than an on/off controller...
I also heat the incoming waste oil with an inline thermostatically controlled electric heater (like a 120V version of a veggietherm)...


Hi Ron,

I've learned a lot from both you and John Galt. Currently have a cold upflow that I'd like to convert to heat so I can better handle PHO in winter. Can you give any specific recommendations for sources / mfgs for the proportional controller and the inline heater?

Any help appreciated! Thanks!
Steve

92 Jetta EcoDiesel
Jettage
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:27 pm
Location: Central PA

Next

Return to Vegetable oil Collecting, Filtering and Dewatering

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests