Vegibike- beginner ON THE ROAD around the GLOBE

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Vegibike- beginner ON THE ROAD around the GLOBE

Postby coachgeo » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:27 pm

Ok... this guy takes a Diesel Royal enfield motorcycle deciding to traverse the globe..... ON VEG OIL

but... never heard of dual tanks, blending etc.... oops.. disaster in the making.

Maybe avoided after meeting up with a Veg oil co. after few thousand miles into the trip.

see

http://www.vegibike.com/2011/05/if-i-ha ... -know.html
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Re: Vegibike- beginner ON THE ROAD around the GLOBE

Postby harryls » Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:14 am

Thank you CoachGeorge...funnily enough your link to [url]http//:www.vegibike.com[/url] has seen quite a lot of traffic from burnveg.com.
I appreciate your comments and the prompting that you gave.

To back track a bit, I set out 9 months ago on a diesel engined Royal Enfield motorbike to ride around planet Earth, leaving the UK at the end of May 2011. Initially the idea was to use only SVO, which I did, but soon found out about clogging up the engine and difficult starts etc. So I adopted a 25% diesel mix and that worked fine for 13000 miles approx. Then I adopted a 2 tank system and effectively ran on pure svo once the engine was hot.This worked fine for a further 2-3000 miles.
Alas when I got to Nepal, the big end went, along with most of the other engine bearings. This was my fault in many ways. I had been given some engine lube by some high end biodiesel engineers who make bio generators for eco housing projects, and their products are award winning. Anyway this engine lube lasts many times longer than standard oil in their generators and they said it would probably see me to Australia. I should have taken that as a joke and changed it at 5000 mile intervals, not 20k...

I had the option at this stage to get a more powerful engine. I started with a single cylinder 10hp yanmar L100 clone. The bigger one was identical apart from it being 13hp and 50cc bigger. Further to the twin tank system I developed an oil heating system that evolved to running a copper pipe carrying the oil around the cylinder to heat it up. And it did to way beyond touch temperature, so was sure it was around 125C.
Anyway after about 500 miles (we got to Thailand by this stage) on veg oil the piston rings coked up, lost compression and stopped...not that I knew what it was the first time till I stripped it down. I assumed I had the mix at the pump wrong...given the other engine worked fine...so adjusted that and tried again. After 300 miles this time the same thing happened.

After all that and 6 weeks delay on the trip, I have not dared use any svo since the second rebuild and the bike is running fine on diesel. However it is really ruining the idea that the trip would be made with a light footprint, burning contemporary zero carbon fuel rather than millions of year old carbon spewing petro-diesel. 1000 miles further on and in Malaysia this is beginning to vex me, particularly as there was meant to be no difference between the 2 engines.

I know it is difficult to say, but if I switched to biodiesel were I can get it and use a mix of svo and diesel do you think I will be OK? I suppose I am after a fairly safe hint (appreciating that nothing is guaranteed and would be conjecture) at what would be a safe mix....50/50? I hope that would work. Otherwise you may have some easy to adopt ideas that would make all the difference...

All best

Harry and Batty (the bike's name)
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Re: Vegibike- beginner ON THE ROAD around the GLOBE

Postby coachgeo » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:43 pm

getting biodiesel?

would check the biodiesel boards..... sign up..... tell them your goals. I Assume alot of home grown biodiesel folk will chime in and set up meetings w/you for pick up. Also several biodiesel boards have running threads listing who has biodiesel and is willing to share. Some where out there may also be a list of where commercial bioD is available.

As to coking on WVO- Somethings amiss.....

. Did you have any verification if the oil was dewatered?
. did you have any verification how well filtered it was (or wasn't)
. W/out a thermometer IN THE OIL before injection you can't assume the oil actually got hot enough. the previous older engine may have had a looser slopy tune to the IP as well as some wear in the rings so it tolerated wvo better at same temps as those you had in the newer engines that coked when running WVO.
. IP timing should be adjusted to maximize combustion. IP timing for diesel compared to WVO is little different. Something too little discussed. IN FACT...... improper IP timeing will make it coke up on diesel too !!! something to watch for. Suggest you stop at diesel shops every couple thousand miles and do a compression check. Even better have someone check the IP adjustment. It might be off even for diesel
. Assuming as a journey rider your cruising at constant speeds you reeeeaaaaaaaly got to make sure tune and temps are correct. More so with wvo bet yes....... even on diesel. Especially in break in time period. Constant RPM and Load is the hardest on an engine. Varriable RPM and loads tends too not coke as much or maybe it breaks up coking naturally occuring and helps clean engine by not letting coke build on coke, on coke, on coke......

This is why research of WVO first done had poor results cause the studies were not done well AND done on constant rpm and constant load engines (generators and tractors). We've learned alot since then, for example many of those studies did not preheat the engine to normal operating temps BEFORE turning on the WVO fuel.

Best of luck!!! Get a temp gauge into your wvo lines. Do occasional WVO after engine is real hot and measure what your real riding wvo oil temps are. My bet is its not near as hot as you think while crusing cause of air flows etc. Of course if it's not getting to temp then certainly stick with diesel unless you rectify the temp of wvo issue.
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Re: Vegibike- beginner ON THE ROAD around the GLOBE

Postby harryls » Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:36 pm

Thank you v much. Will find some biodiesel boards in Australia and US, maybe there are some in Malaysia as well.

Not sure if it makes much difference but I have only been using svo on this trip. Mainly sunflower oil but also palm oil now that I am in SE Asia.

As a half measure what do you think about blending svo / diesel, 50/50 till I find biodiesel?

All best

Harry
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Re: Vegibike- beginner ON THE ROAD around the GLOBE

Postby coachgeo » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:08 pm

harryls wrote:Thank you v much. Will find some biodiesel boards in Australia and US, maybe there are some in Malaysia as well.

Not sure if it makes much difference but I have only been using svo on this trip. Mainly sunflower oil but also palm oil now that I am in SE Asia.

As a half measure what do you think about blending svo / diesel, 50/50 till I find biodiesel?

All best

Harry


is this engine Direct Inject or Indirect inject?

before you do anything you need a base line of your compression. Get a compression check and write the results down. Also on your trips in flat areas do some time test to a set mph and maybe acceleration test too. Again baseline stuff. With this time/speed info as you swap fuels you can test to see how its working to get indicators on how well the styff is combusting. With compression test you can get indications of coking occuring before you feel it in the seat of your pants, more so before your sidelined with a rebuild in need.

A tiny mist of water into the air intake occasional might also help... quick net search found this for you http://listerengine.com/smf/index.php?topic=4469.0 )

What ratio blend matters your temps your operating in, if your engine is IDI or DI etc. so can't even attempt to offer blend advise
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Re: Vegibike- beginner ON THE ROAD around the GLOBE

Postby harryls » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:45 pm

Thanks again George
I pretty much have the top speed on the flat, and it is about 45mph depending on wind. That is using diesel. I am yet to find a compression tool that fits the injector hole, but am on the look out.
It is a direct injection engine, and so far the temp range has been 10C - 40c.
Will have a go with a mist of water into the air intake. One often hears of engines running better in fog, guess it is all connected.
Harry
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Re: Vegibike- beginner ON THE ROAD around the GLOBE

Postby coachgeo » Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:35 am

there is a wealth of knowledge on this board. Sorta exspect that other memeber's on this board will pipe in their thoughts. Plenty in here with more experience and knowledge than I.

Love your trip.... all the things and places to see and explore. Simply just the adventure. Much envious of you.
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Re: Vegibike- beginner ON THE ROAD around the GLOBE

Postby coachgeo » Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:37 pm

coachgeo wrote:... Sorta exspect that other memeber's on this board will pipe in their thoughts. Plenty in here with more experience and knowledge than I.

Love your trip.... all the things and places to see and explore. Simply just the adventure. Much envious of you.
Jesh folk..... Shame on yall :oops: for not adding your .02

Lots of you on this board now loads more than I do.... pipe in and help this fellow out. The dudes traveling THE GLOBE and wants to keep at it on our favorite fuel. How can you not resist :mrgreen:
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Re: Vegibike- beginner ON THE ROAD around the GLOBE

Postby SunWizard » Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:19 pm

I have no experience with small engines, or (chinese?) clones of japanese ones. It could be a poor quality engine that would have failed on diesel or WVO. One advice is that if its spewing visible smoke, that can lead to coking. You may be able to adjust the timing, or stay off the throttle at times to avoid smoke. If your top speed is 45, it means you are underpowered and that leads to smoke, which leads to coking.

Your temp of 125C (257F) is much hotter than most use: 71C (160F) but I don't know if that would be bad except it could lead to coking in the copper pipe where its heated.
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Re: Vegibike- beginner ON THE ROAD around the GLOBE

Postby harryls » Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:28 am

Hello all, and thank you for your thoughts and help on my anxieties.
On the way to the airport in Singapore, to airfreight the bike to New Zealand, the engine failed again, with the lack of compression. This was the 4th time in about a 100 hours of running or 2500 miles. And I was not going to strip the engine down again, so I found a local Yanmar dealer and I bough a genuine Yanmar. 3 times the price, but wow what a difference. I have only had a day on it, but it is so much quieter, better torque and all in all feels so much tighter than either of the previous clone engines.

I am pretty sure that the last engine was just a bad one, and I was unlucky. The great guy in Singapore who had been selling both original Yanmar and clone engines for over 10 years, said that he hardly ever see yanmars back for repair unlike the clones, and would not even take my old engine off me for free. They are 'throw away' engines was his line.

Hopefully I am on to a better thing now and I can start enjoying the journey, rather than just worrying about it.

Will keep you posted

Harry. Vegibike.com


I am monitoring the fuel consumption, but fancy it will be a lot better.
I am taking the line that it is best to run the new engine in using diesel, so will keep of bio fuels for a 1000 miles. Does this sound sensible to members, or just not necessary.
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